HL Deb 03 February 1994 vol 551 cc1372-4

3.12 p.m.

Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will ensure that the departmental briefing for each entry in the EC preliminary draft budget for 1995, as co-ordinated by the Treasury for presentation to the Budget Committee and COREPER by the United Kingdom's Permanent Representative, is at the same time presented for scrutiny by both Houses of Parliament.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Henley)

My Lords, the Government's broad objectives in considering the preliminary draft budget are set out in the explanatory memorandum which is submitted to Parliament in the weeks leading up to the Budget Council's establishment of the Community's draft budget.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the purpose of the Question is to elicit the Government's response to the suggestion, repeatedly made, that both Houses of Parliament should have an opportunity to have an input into the budget discussion before the Government take up an attitude in the Council of Ministers? Is the noble Lord aware that in answer to a Written Question that I tabled over 18 months ago, the Government stated: The basis for the United Kingdom's consideration of the Commission's Preliminary Draft Budget is a careful consideration of each entry in it by the United Kingdom department with policy responsibility for that spending programme. Consideration is given to the amount proposed by the Commission, the cost-effectiveness of the programme and the importance which the United Kingdom attaches to the programme. The Treasury co-ordinates briefing for each entry, to enable the United Kingdom's permanent representation to argue the United Kingdom's position in the Budget Committee and in COREPER"?—[Official Report, 15/7/92; WA29.] Is there any reason at all why the Government are afraid of either House of Parliament being in possession of the same facts that are in the possession of government departments when they consider the preliminary draft budget?

Lord Henley

My Lords, the noble Lord will put his views across and we shall take note of them. Obviously —and I believe that even the noble Lord would accept this—in any negotiation, and particularly on detailed matters of an international nature, one does not disclose one's negotiating position in advance. It would be unreasonable to expect the United Kingdom's Permanent Representative to negotiate effectively if our detailed position were known in advance at the outset of those negotiations.

Lord Renton

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, invites Parliament to usurp the function of Ministers?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I should not like to accuse the noble Lord of that. I am trying to make it clear that we shall not disclose our negotiating position in advance; but as we have made clear to the noble Lord, we shall provide explanatory memoranda to Parliament at all the appropriate stages of the budget process. However, we shall not disclose our negotiating position in advance.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that nobody is asking the Government to disclose their negotiating position and that contrary to the views expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Renton, one of the functions of Parliament is to control and question the Executive? Is there any reason why Parliament should not be able to have available the same facts as the Government on the preliminary draft budget?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I accept the noble Lord's position as regards the function of Parliament. However, I do not accept that means that we should disclose our negotiating position. Whatever the noble Lord says, that is exactly what he is asking us to do.

Lord Desai

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Bruce has his views on the European budget; and whether or not we disagree with him, we all have our own views on it. We should like to know what is going on. Why will the Government not tell us?

Lord Henley

My Lords, the Government make their position clear. They will not disclose their negotiating position in advance. If the noble Lord cannot accept the validity of that point, I do not know that I can say anything further. I suggest to the noble Lord that he next tries to play bridge with his cards face up on the table to see how he gets on.

Lord Wyatt of Weeford

My Lords, does not the Government's determination to maintain secrecy over these matters make everybody feel more disgruntled with Brussels than they otherwise would be? Are we to have no open government at all as regards what is going on behind the scenes before we present our case to Brussels?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I am sorry that the noble Lord is a little disgruntled. Perhaps I can make him a little more "gruntled", as P.G. Wodehouse put it. As I believe the noble Lord is aware, in accordance with agreed practice, at all stages of negotiation of the EC budget the Government submit explanatory memoranda which set out their broad objectives. That allows Parliament to inform the Government of its views.

Lord Eatwell

My Lords, in setting out the Government's broad objectives, as the noble Lord put it, what allowance is made in departmental Treasury briefings for the exercise of additionality?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I go back to what I have tried to make clear to the noble Lord's noble friends. It is a long-standing convention that the Government do not give details of discussions which precede the formulation of government policy. We stick by that.

Lord Eatwell

My Lords, I was not asking for detail. I was asking for the general principle which the noble Lord said in his earlier answer that he was happy to provide.

Lord Henley

My Lords, I cannot take the matter any further.