HL Deb 06 December 1994 vol 559 cc829-30

2.55 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they are arranging to gather information about ocean currents and winds, which may assist shipping and fisheries, from the odyssey now being made by the fleet of floating toys accidentally spilled at sea in 1992.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Henley)

My Lords, this odyssey may make for a good story, but I am afraid that it does not make for good science. I can assure my noble friend that we do not have to rely on plastic ducks for data. British oceanographers are among the best in the world, and there are already a number of proven ocean current computer models in this country. The World Ocean Circulation Experiment has its international headquarters here, and definitive data from that work will allow the models to be developed further.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his reply. While plastic flotsam is not normally to be encouraged, is there not an opportunity to obtain useful information, already achieved by American scientists, as these durable coloured toys pass through the North Polar region and the Atlantic during the next five years? Does my noble friend agree that the traditional concern of the British public for the protection of birds is likely now to be extended to these yellow ducks as they perform this helpful service?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I am afraid that the release of various ducks—I assure my noble friend that it is not only a matter of yellow ducks but of red beavers, blue turtles and green frogs—is of very limited scientific value since, although we know the position of their release, the exact time of their arrival on the sparsely populated beaches in Alaska and the path they take is not known. Further, there are four different types of plastic bath toy—some 30,000 ducks, turtles, beavers and frogs. Since they are of different shapes and therefore have different windage and stability characteristics, again, the data is of limited use. We can obtain such data by other means.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is it not the case that the Government are too much engaged in playing ducks and drakes in other fields?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I do not think that this is an occasion for the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, to try to score political points, but no doubt he cannot restrain himself.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that today in the conference hall there was a commemoration of the need for plain English speaking? Is he further aware that I have not been able to understand one word of the exchanges on this matter?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I can only apologise to my noble friend. I thought that what I was saying was as plain as a pikestaff. I shall take my noble friend to one side afterwards and try to explain in simpler language. The rest of the House, who, I believe, are of equal intelligence to my noble friend, certainly seemed to understand what I was saying.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, would my noble friend the Minister not agree that we, as sitting ducks, might be very lucky to be struck by a flotilla of yellow ducks, beavers, frogs and so on?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend will have to wait a very, very long time before she sees the sitting ducks, yellow ducks, turtles, beavers or frogs on our own shores. I understand that it will take some five or 10 years for them to work their way through the polar ice. Even then, they might appear on the shores of Scotland or wherever somewhat squashed.