HL Deb 28 April 1994 vol 554 cc808-10

3.10 p.m.

Lord Carter asked Her Majesty's Government:

What steps they are taking regarding errors by the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on Integrated Administration and Control System forms (IACS) in the light of the heavy penalties for farmers who complete the forms wrongly.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Howe)

My Lords, it is the responsibility of farmers to ensure that their claims for aid are accurate, complete and submitted by the deadline. Where errors have been identified in the field data printout, we have contacted affected applicants, notifying them of the section of the printout in which mistakes occurred, offering help and advice where necessary. We will deal with errors on claims as sympathetically as we can within the rules.

Lord Carter

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. Is he aware that farmers went to considerable trouble and expense last year to get their IACS forms completed correctly and submitted on time? Does the Minister agree that it is extremely disappointing that after all the trouble taken by farmers these forms are now coming back to them with a large number of Ministry errors, some trivial and some serious? Can the Minister confirm that it is the responsibility of farmers to point out these errors to the Ministry, and if they fail to do so, and thereby submit incorrect forms, could be liable and lose out quite heavily? Is that fair?

Earl Howe

My Lords, as I pointed out, there have been errors on the field data printouts and in the minority of cases where those errors have occurred we have notified farmers accordingly. I am sure the noble Lord will understand that IACS is an anti-fraud measure and it is very important that farmers take the trouble to fill in their forms correctly. They have time to do so. We will, as I say, be as understanding as we can over simple clerical errors but there comes a point where, if the error is a substantive one, we have to abide by the rules and I think that is in the interests of not only the UK but farmers in general across the Community.

Lord Stanley of Alderley

My Lords, can my noble friend tell me how many farmers have submitted their forms so far? If farmers submit their forms right at the very last moment are they not, just this once, just a little bit to blame?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend and I endorse what he says. Farmers should not leave their applications until the last minute because where applications are received close to the deadline and are found to be incomplete it could then be difficult for the applicants to amend and return the forms before the deadline. Therefore, I urge all farmers to make as much speed as they can in submitting the forms.

Lord Carter

My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Ministry of Agriculture is, I believe, using satellite sensory testing to check on the accuracy of farmers' IACS returns? With the number of errors which are now being found on these forms, does the Minister agree that some sensory testing might not come amiss in the Ministry of Agriculture?

Earl Howe

My Lords, we have said publicly that we will be using satellite surveillance to check farmers' claims. We will not, however, be relying solely on those checks. On the ground inspections will also take place to verify the satellite imagery. But I would just say to the noble Lord that I would have a little more sympathy with his argument if it were a case of farmers paying the Government money rather than the other way round.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House whether the Government now consider it more important for farmers to plough, sow, reap and mow, or to fill in the forms correctly? Will he also say whether the measures taken across the Community that he spoke of are as severe as the measures applied in this country?

Earl Howe

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, the IACS is a major tool in the maintenance of the level playing field across Europe, which I am sure noble Lords welcome. With regard to the first part of the noble Lord's question, farmers are left in no doubt that upon the IACS exercise hinges a great deal of money and it is in their interest therefore to approach the exercise with due care and diligence.

Viscount Addison

My Lords, does my noble friend the Minister agree with me that farmers would be better managers for having the IACS?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I am sure that my noble friend is right. For one thing it is always of benefit to a fanner to know the acreage that he is farming and to concentrate on the options for husbandry with which the EC rules present him.

Baroness Robson of Kiddington

My Lords, does the Minister agree that for many farmers it is difficult to fill in these forms? One needs to be almost a chartered accountant to do so. Does he agree that for certain farms about four ordnance survey maps are needed to work out the acreage accurately, and that cannot be done very quickly? It is a difficult form to complete.

Earl Howe

My Lords, I would say to the noble Baroness that the simple truth underlying this is the more flexibility that one builds into agricultural schemes and the more options one gives to farmers, the more boxes one needs to print on the form. Having said that, we have gone to some trouble to make the forms as user friendly as we can. We also trialled the form with a number of farmers and I must say the feedback was positive.

Lord Dixon-Smith

My Lords, does not my noble friend the Minister agree that the time spent making sure that the IACS return is correct is extremely worthwhile and pays a considerable dividend?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I completely agree with my noble friend.

Lord Carter

My Lords, I apologise for coming back to this matter, but it is the errors by the Ministry that we are talking about. Of course it is important for farmers to complete their forms correctly, but it is their job to point out the Ministry's errors to the Ministry, and if they do not they are liable.

Earl Howe

My Lords, as I said, there have indeed been some errors on some field data printouts, but I think that the noble Lord is in danger of making rather a meal out of this. A mistake, if it occurs, should be pretty obvious to anyone affected by it. We have written to all the farmers involved and, in general, I would say that farmers are well aware that the onus is on them to complete the forms accurately.