HL Deb 27 April 1994 vol 554 cc662-4

2.49 p.m.

Baroness Nicol

asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they have any plans to review the ownership and management of national nature reserves in England, Scotland and Wales.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (The Earl of Arran)

My Lords, the Government have no plans for such a review.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very positive, if short, Answer. Will the Minister accept that behind my Question is the anxiety in some circles that the privatisation plans of the 1980s were to be revived? There will be considerable relief that that is not so. Can the Minister confirm that, as the country agencies use some of those reserves for land management exercises and because they are so important to wildlife, the day-to-day management will stay in the hands of government agencies?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I can certainly say to the noble Baroness that we have never advocated such a policy of selling off NNRs but we have asked the agencies to consider whether some management functions could be contracted out. The noble Baroness is quite right and she is the first to appreciate that the national nature reserves are the jewel in the crown of nature conservation in this country. She is also quite right in saying that they have other important secondary values such as for demonstration and advice purposes and for education, amenity and recreation.

Baroness David

My Lords, the Minister has just mentioned education. Is he aware that a great deal of environmental education goes on in these reserves? Will he give some assurance that if there is contracting out the educational work will continue and that there will be no charge for it?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the noble Baroness is quite correct. I have stressed the importance of education and certainly that will continue.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, since the government funding for these bodies—the jewel in our crown—has dropped from £2½ million in 1985 to zero last: year, will the Minister provide financial assistance for conservation bodies to assist in their management of important sites for wildlife?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, this jewel in the crown is mostly run by English Nature to which the government grant is some £40 million. I cannot say that is no funding.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, we keep on hearing this expression "jewel in the crown" which—is the noble Earl aware?—arouses certain suspicions on this side of the House. A jewel in the crown is almost immediately sold off. Will the noble Earl confirm that not only do the Government have no plans, in the terms of the original Question, on the ownership and management of national nature reserves in England, Scotland and Wales, but also that the Government are not even considering carefully —to use his expression of yesterday—such plans? Does he not accept that the national nature reserves are an enormous success and, in the words of my noble friend Lady Nicol, it is vitally important that their management and ownership remain in the public sector?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I can confirm that we have no plans nor are we carefully considering any such plans.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that if the general principle of contracting out has any basis, the reserves ought not to be excluded from it? There are so many of their functions which can be more efficiently and, I think, more cheaply carried out by outside contractors which need not interfere with the general presentation of the reserves to the nation.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, my noble friend is indeed absolutely correct. Contracting out in many instances, including the management of national nature reserves, is very often a sensible and cost-effective method of looking after them.

Baroness David

My Lords, is the Minister aware that he did not answer the second part of my question? He said the education would continue; I asked whether there would be any charge for it.

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, whether or not there will be any charge will depend upon the actual circumstance. I am not aware at this moment whether there is any charge involved, but it is something that we shall keep carefully at heart.

Lord Beaumont of Whitley

My Lords, is it not true that although English Nature is funded in order to look after these reserves, the money for the purchase of nature reserves has now dropped to approximately zero?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, once again the noble Lord, Lord Beaumont, is totally incorrect. The money spent on the purchase of national nature reserves by English Nature, which includes their management as well, is some £8 million.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, the Minister agreed with his noble friend that certain functions of national nature reserves could be contracted out. That is interesting. Which functions does he feel would be suitable for that exercise?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I thought I had already made that clear. I am particularly referring to the management, running and maintenance of the reserves.