HL Deb 19 April 1994 vol 554 cc85-7

Lord Constantine of Stanmore asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether the RAF is to lose approximately one-third of the number of combat aircraft which it held during the Gulf War, and how such substantial cuts can be reconciled with their stated policy of "Front line first".

Lord Annaly

My Lords, as a result of Options for Change and subsequent decisions announced last year reflecting the significantly reduced threat, the number of RAF fast jet combat aircraft has reduced by approximately one-third. The "Front line first" study is a wholly separate exercise which is designed to achieve the delivery of our defence capability more cost effectively.

Lord Constantine of Stanmore

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply and congratulate him on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box.

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Constantine of Stanmore

Is he aware that training a pilot recruit takes three years before appointment to his first fast jet squadron? In an emergency, how long is it likely to take Britain to regain the air strength she enjoyed at the outbreak of the Gulf War?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, there is a sufficient number of trained pilots to sustain the front line. We are confident that the RAF could make a full contribution to a similar coalition operation, although the precise mix of contribution might be different.

Lord Harvington

My Lords, although a Member of another place I was a fighter pilot in the auxiliary air force for many years before the last war. I know and remember well the torments we went through having to fly obsolete animals like Wapitis as fighters in the three years before the war. Please, do not let us be caught like that, even though, thank God, there is no Hitler.

Lord Annaly

My Lords, we are confident that the studies currently being undertaken will not leave us in that position.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box as a defence spokesman, a difficult role indeed. In the light of the questions that have been asked, will the noble Lord give the House an assurance that the air force will always be maintained at the level necessary for the defence of the United Kingdom?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind words. Since I have been coming to the House —and now I am coming more frequently-I have admired the noble Lord's contributions. I know therefore that I shall have to be on my toes. With regard to his question, we are confident that we remain prepared.

Lord Mayhew

My Lords, in adding my congratulations to the noble Lord, may I assure him that he has nothing to fear from the noble Lord, Lord Williams? He must look behind him for reassurance!

Lord Annaly

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware, acting on the advice that he has just been given, that many of us are very unhappy about the reduction in the forces, particularly in the aircraft of the RAF? Is he prepared to exercise his influence to prevent further cutbacks and indeed to restore in some measure the strength of the air force?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, the Government take account of all views.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos:

My Lords, how many airfields will be closed as a result of the cuts?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, the noble Lord's question may be a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. If he would like to know the answer, I shall make sure that I write to him with it.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I am much obliged.

Lord Brougham and Vaux

My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box. Can he confirm that the aircraft flying today are far superior to their counterparts? Can he give the House some indication as to what is happening with the new Euro-fighter?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind words. Perhaps he will give me a moment. I am not so quick in finding my way around my folder as I hope to be shortly. I shall write to the noble Lord.

Lord Dean of Beswick:

My Lords, in order to give us the fullest information and enable us to evaluate his comments, can the the noble Lord tell us the number of aircraft there were before the cuts and the number of aircraft we shall be left with after the cuts?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, yes, I can give the House that information. The 1990 force levels in fighter aircraft —all the RAF aircraft—stood at 521. The planned force levels for the mid-1990s will stand at 354, which is 68 per cent. of the former figure.

The Viscount of Oxfuird

My Lords, I also congratulate my noble friend on his elevation. Will he accept that in 1958, when it was my privilege to fly some of Her Majesty's first line aircraft, I was told that if I smashed a plane it would cost £40,000? I understand that today it would cost £40 million. Does the noble Lord agree that it would be wise to lease those aircraft so that they become a charge against revenue as opposed to capital?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for those kind words. The defence cost study is looking at the possibility of leasing arrangements for air transport.

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the proper answer to the question put by the noble Viscount is that we should not allow the noble Viscount to be in charge of any of our aeroplanes?

Lord Annaly

My Lords, I should not wish to say anything against my noble friend.

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