London Transport Chairman: Selection (Hansard, 13 April 1994)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Transport (Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish)
My Lords, the Government are in the process of selecting a new chairman for London Transport. Sir Wilfrid Newton will continue as chairman until that process is successfully completed.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that many people are amazed at the Government's attitude towards this appointment? Is there not already in place as deputy chairman of London Transport a man with vast experience and great commitment to the London Transport system? He has been recommended by the present chairman and could be appointed tomorrow by the Government if they were not intent on getting revenge against him for being completely committed to London Transport and having the courage to speak against the Government's meanness towards the organisation?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, the Government's aim throughout has been to ensure that the important task of providing leadership to London Transport is in the most effective hands available. For that reason we decided to cast the net wide in order to make sure we considered all the potential candidates in the field. Dr. Watkins has decided to withdraw as a possible candidate for the chairmanship.

§ Baroness Miller of Hendon
My Lords, can my noble friend inform the House what moneys will be made available to the new chairman, after he or she is appointed, for investment in London Transport? How will that compare with the investment in London Transport under the last Labour administration?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, the new chairman, whoever he may be when we appoint him, will indeed be looking at the next three years during which time the investment we put into London Transport will be of the order of £900 million to £1 billion. That contrasts starkly with the £807 million put in by the last Labour government during all their years of office.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, will the Minister say in what respect Dr. Watkins is alleged to have fallen short of the qualifications required for this important task, bearing in mind the fact that the existing chairman had displayed every confidence in that man's abilities? Is it not a fact that Dr. Watkins had criticised the level of investment in London Transport and that it is for reasons of independence of mind and the courage that he displayed in depicting his own opinions that he fell foul of Mr. Kenneth Clarke?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, there has been speculation that Dr. Watkins has fallen foul of the Government because of the criticism he made. I can assure your Lordships that that is not the case. How the noble Lord can make that criticism in the light of the answer I gave to my noble friend a moment ago, I cannot understand. The important point is that we believe that this vital job, spending around £3 billion of investment money over the next three years in London's transport, should go to the person whom we decide has all the necessary qualities of leadership. We believe it is right and proper that we have a competition to try to establish who that person is. As I said, Dr. Watkins has decided to withdraw from the competition.

§ Lord Clinton-Davis
My Lords, has there not already been a competition? Is it not a fact that Dr. Watkins was told in no uncertain terms by the Government that he was not a suitable candidate? In what respect—please will the Minister answer the question I put to him—is it alleged that he fell short of the qualifications that were required?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do not believe it is for me on the Floor of the House to speculate on matters of appointing people which ought to be kept confidential, not only on behalf of the candidate who succeeds but on behalf of all those candidates who do not.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, when my right honourable friend comes to appoint a new chairman of London Transport—I have every confidence that he will make the right decision—will he be able to give the new chairman the assurance that the traditional London double-decker bus will be allowed to continue in operation? One hears rumours from the European Commission that that might not be so. Will my noble friend press the new chairman of London Transport particularly to allow the continuation of the traditional Routemaster open-platformed, conductor-operated bus, which is by far the most popular with London travellers?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am pleased to tell my noble friend that the new chairman, when appointed, will inherit a programme, currently being undertaken at a value of £10 million by London Transport, to refurbish, in order to extend their life, the 500 or so Routemasters, which are the very popular buses my noble friend refers to. On the general question of double-decked buses and the European Community, this is a complicated field. Currently, discussions are going on in the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe body on the whole question of regulations governing double-decked buses. Following a suggestion by the United Kingdom, we have agreed to a Commission request to put forward the kind of requirements that should be in place for double-decker buses. As my noble friend knows, rules and regulations about the design arid so on of all kinds of buses have to be looked at on a European basis. Double-decker buses are no exception. Naturally, our interest is far greater 1540 than any other European country because we have far more double-decker buses than any of our friends in the European Union.

§ Lord Ezra
My Lords, based on my past experience of nationalised industry, it always seemed that the Government left to the last minute the appointment of a chairman, much to the detriment of those enterprises. Will the noble Lord indicate when the Government started considering who would replace Sir Wilfrid Newton?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do not have to hand the date on which we started to make this consideration. We knew that Sir Wilfrid was going to retire and had made plans for that retirement. However, we hope to be in a position within the next few months to announce his successor.

§ Baroness Lockwood
My Lords, how can the noble Lord be so confident that the new chairman is to be a he?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I am sorry. If the noble Baroness is putting in an application, we shall be happy to consider it.

§ Lord Marlesford
My Lords, can my noble friend give me a better example of subsidiarity than that the United Kingdom should have sole responsibility for deciding whether or not double-decker buses ply the streets of London?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do not think that we have nearly come to that position. It is important that we have common regulations throughout the Community relating to motor vehicles of all kinds so that motor vehicles can move freely between Community countries when being used either as passenger vehicles or as commercial vehicles and also so that the sale of vehicles at home and abroad is not inhibited by differing rules and regulations in different countries.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, what on earth has that to do with the Question on the Order Paper?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, I do believe it is about London Transport and it runs buses.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does not Dr. Watkins have all the qualifications that the Government really want? He has been a great success in private industry; he has had great commitment to London Transport; and, what is more, in 1993 he was appointed deputy chairman of London Transport. What has happened between the time of his appointment and the time when the Government refused to give him the top job?

§ Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish
My Lords, the position is simply that Dr. Watkins's performance as London Transport's deputy chairman and chief executive is not an issue as far as the Government is concerned. But we do believe that before we make the choice for the top job in this important field we should 1541 take as wide a look as we can for the best possible candidate. As I have explained, Dr. Watkins has now decided to withdraw as a possible candidate.