HL Deb 26 October 1993 vol 549 cc769-71

2.50 p.m.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is their policy towards the admission of Poland, Hungary and the Czech republic to NATO following the statement by President Yeltsin in August to the Polish President that he had no objection to Poland's application to join NATO, which was followed recently by a demand by the Russian Government that those countries should not be admitted.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Lord Henley)

My Lords, we are considering with our NATO allies how to develop further the alliance's relationship with the countries of central and eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union. We expect some decisions on this to be taken at the NATO summit on 10th January next year.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply, which is encouraging so far as it goes. Does he agree that if the countries which I have mentioned—but not the Soviet Union—continue to progress and develop as they are doing at present, they need to feel secure? Does the Minister consider that there is some urgency in the matter and that if the West does not act now, it may once more, as in the past, prove to be too late? Can my noble friend say to what extent those countries, literally at the heart of Europe, would be supported by NATO should they come under the threat of attack or intimidation?

Lord Henley

My Lords, we do not consider there to be a security vacuum in central or eastern Europe. Obviously, I understand the concerns of my noble friend. He will appreciate, however, that these important matters, with all the possible implications of enlargement of the alliance, require careful consideration. He will also appreciate that we must ensure, whatever steps we take, that we do not unintentionally create new divisions in Europe by unnecessarily antagonising others.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, will the Minister agree that it is desirable to promote closer links on military and security matters with the former communist countries of eastern Europe? If he does agree, can he put a little flesh on his first Answer and say how the Government intend to promote such links?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I am not sure there is much flesh that I can put on the remarks I made earlier. What we and others have repeatedly stated is that our security is inseparably linked with that of all European states, whether formerly east or west. But these are complicated issues. They require careful consideration at the summit in January next year.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, can I press the Minister further? At the recent meeting of NATO defence Ministers, an initiative was discussed which I believe has become known as "Partnerships for Peace". Can the Minister say how the existing members of NATO intend to take that further?

Lord Henley

My Lords, "Partnerships for Peace" was a plan put forward by the Americans at the recent meeting to which the noble Baroness refers. Again, it will be something that will be considered at the summit in Brussels in January. It is for the summit to consider those matters.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that those of us who saw the skill and gallantry with which the Polish forces operated in Italy during the last war feel strongly that Poland would be a useful addition to NATO?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I understand exactly why my noble friend feels as he does about the debt we owe to so many gallant Poles of the last war. However, as I said, it is a matter of importance. There are considerable implications to any additions to NATO. As I made clear in my first Answer, we have to consider what the implications of an extension of NATO might be for others in the region.

Lord Callaghan of Cardiff

My Lords, while I do not detract for one moment from what the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, says about Poland, is it not true that the threat mostly to the security of those countries is not from without and will not be for some time? It is from their ethnic minorities and problems with their boundaries, with which NATO is not qualified to deal. Therefore, may I put to the Minister that it is quite right to go slowly on the matter and that the Government should not hurry?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I welcome the support of the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan. The message I was trying to get over is one that is neither positive nor negative. It is one of considering all the implications of any additions, whatever the country, to NATO.

Lord Bonham-Carter

My Lords, I recognise that this is an extremely difficult problem. However, will the noble Lord agree that the anxieties of the central European countries for their security, in view of their history, is natural and totally understandable? If they were brought into NATO, it might seem to Russia to be confrontational. Therefore, some formula must be found which will satisfy the need for the security of those countries without causing an affront to Russia. Is not a possibility which might be borne in mind that they should be associated in some way with the WEU and that the guarantee should be jointly between WEU and Russia?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I can only say that I take note of the last suggestion of the noble Lord. Obviously, as I believe I have made clear, we understand the desire of those countries, for historical and other reasons, for security. We also understand the fears of the Russians. It is getting those two points over; that is why, I believe, the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, stressed the need to move cautiously.

Lord Hylton

My Lords, while I agree in part with the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, should we not be working towards a non-aggression pact covering both eastern Europe and the Balkans?

Lord Henley

My Lords, the Question relates to NATO. We believe that NATO has been one of the great success stories of our security since the last war. It has proved enormously effective in preserving peace for the whole of Europe. Any extensions to NATO we would have to consider in the light of the possible outcome for the effectiveness of NATO. But, certainly, the desire of Her Majesty's Government is for peace throughout the entire region.

Lord Belhaven and Stenton

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that, despite what the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, said, there are practically no ethnic minorities in Poland and no frontier disputes between the three countries which I have mentioned or between those countries, as I understand it, and Slovakia which I did not mention?

Lord Henley

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, will have noted what my noble friend said. The important point that the noble Lord, Lord Callaghan, was trying to make was the need to move carefully in this area.

Lord Whaddon

My Lords, will the noble Lord reassure our friends in Poland that, while NATO may or may not be the most appropriate security organisation in the years to come, the security and integrity of Poland, Czechoslovakia and Hungary will be foremost in our thoughts in the formation of whatever new security organisations may emerge?

Lord Henley

My Lords, the noble Lord will know that the security and integrity of Poland and the other countries in eastern Europe are much in our minds. I can assure the noble Lord that—although this goes slightly wide of the question—we offer a great deal of assistance to Poland and other countries through the Know-How Fund, the Polish Stabilisation Fund and the various European Community programmes.