European Community: Descriptive Title (Hansard, 21 October 1993)

HL Deb 21 October 1993 vol 549 cc631-4 631

§ Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:

§ Whether they will confirm that, in the foreseeable future, the descriptive title "European Community" will continue to be used to identify each of the institutions named in Article 1 of the treaty establishing the European Community; to all committees and other bodies appointed by them and answerable to them; and to authenticate descriptively all decisions, directives, regulations, rules, recommendations, communications, logos, insignia and all other information material issued by and on behalf of the Community, to the exclusion of the term "European Union" in respect of all matters covered by the said treaty.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, the European Communities, that is the EEC, Euratom and the Coal and Steel Community, will remain in being after the Maastricht Treaty enters into force. They are not replaced by the European Union. No decisions have yet been taken on where it may be appropriate to replace "European Communities" by "European Union" as a descriptive title.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for her reply. However, is she aware that her right honourable friend the Prime Minister, in his definitive article in the Economist on 25th September, referred to the European Community no less than 40 times, of which five related to its future progress, and that not once was the question of European Union mentioned? Is the Minister further aware that there is a substantial caucus in Europe at present which has ganged up against the United Kingdom and which would wish to see a European Union established as an identity to the exclusion of the term "Community" as an ultimate means of weighting opinion in favour of a federal union of Europe?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am aware of both points made by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington. I must make it clear that the Union itself has no international, legal personality. In more formal contexts, it must be clear that the member states are concluding agreements in their own names. Whatever phrase is used to describe the member states acting together in CFSP, it must be clear that it is the member states who take the decisions on the obligations.

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§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, should we not be careful of being mesmerised by words and names? Are there not such organisations as the Church Union, the Western European Union, the National Union of Mineworkers and, indeed, many other unions and no one thinks that they deprive us of our essential liberties?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, my noble and learned friend makes a marvellous point. Moreover, I do not think that anyone has ever objected to the Mothers' Union.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, the Minister will no doubt have seen that in the Guardian today there is reference to the European Community and not to the European Union, especially as regards an allegation that the Government are throwing away the opportunity to create no less than 50,000 training places for the unemployed by failing to claim up to £100 million in grants which would be available from the European Community. Whether one calls it a "Community" or a "Union", can the Minister either confirm or deny whether that is true? I am sure that, with her customary assiduity and application to her job, she knows the answer.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the story in today's edition of the Guardian is both mischievous and inaccurate. The United Kingdom has not turned down any money from the European Social Fund. Despite repeated requests to the Commission for clear guidance, the Commission has so far failed to explain satisfactorily how it calculates the balance of money due to the UK at the end of individual annual programmes. Until the Commission does so, it is impossible for us to make an accurate forecast of future receipts from Brussels.
Despite the Commission's failure to respond, we decided that urgent discussions should, nevertheless, be put in train to identify a solution, thus enabling the UK to make full use of the funds that it has been allocated—and that we are busy doing.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does the: Minister agree that there is a qualitative difference between the words "union" and "community"? Although words may not mean too much to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hailsham, they mean a great deal to other people. Is it not the history of the EC that it has achieved power by ratchet effect? The word "union" will be used by the Federalists as yet another ratchet to achieve their full aim of a European superstate.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, is wrong as regards his final point. As many noble Lords will remember, the term "European Union" was first put forward in the Stuttgart Declaration 1983 and then appeared in the preamble to the Single European Act. Perhaps I may remind the House that it was defined only for the first time in Article A of the Maastricht Treaty as follows: The Union shall be founded on the European Communities, supplemented by the policies and forms of cc-operation established by this Treaty". 633 That applies to Titles V and VI referring to "common foreign and security policy and home and justice affairs. It is not the Trojan horse that the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart, seems to think it is. It is a way of referring to the Community as the body which is serviced by the Commission and the Union, which is wider than the Community.

§ Lord Barnett
My Lords, leaving aside the question of whether it is a union, a community or whatever, perhaps I may refer to the issue of the social fund. Can I take it that the Minister's reply to my noble friend Lord Richard means that the big issue of additionality in obtaining money from the social fund is not a problem for the Government and that they will find the additional funds to enable us to obtain that £100 million?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am informed that the United Kingdom intends to make full use of the funds that it has been allocated. Therefore, the noble Lord must be right in his assumption.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, in view of the Minister's previous reply to my supplementary question, and reverting to the Question on the Order Paper, will she inform the House what action the Government propose to take in the forthcoming European Council to be held on 29th October if the proposal to use the term "European Union" is in fact proposed by the presidency and supported by other states? Will she undertake to veto the use of the term if it is proposed in that sense?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, there is a sense in which I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, gets over-excited about this matter. The Union itself has no financial resources. The noble Lord has been most concerned with financial resources. That is why Article F3 cannot be used to obtain such resources. I believe that, as we have made clear on many occasions, what is decided in the European Council is a matter of what goes on the agenda and what the member states' governments decide. I do not see the dangers that the noble Lord envisages and I will bring his concerns to the attention of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does that mean yes or no?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, it depends which of the many questions which the noble Lord, Lord Bruce of Donington, frequently asks me is being referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, the noble Baroness was asked whether she would veto any suggestion by the presidency that the word "Union" should be more widely used. Will she do so or not?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, as I believe I explained in my first supplementary reply, the word "Union" is defined in Article A of the Maastricht Treaty. In our many hours of long debates I made it clear that when the European Communities are further 634 enhanced by common foreign and security policy and home and justice affairs they will be known as the Union; that is, the combined enterprise will be known as the Union.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, does the availability of the £100 million depend on this country spending an equal or similar amount?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, that is way beyond the scope of the original Question, but the matter will depend on whether the Commission can give us a proper answer to the questions that we have rightly asked about how it calculates the balance of moneys due to the United Kingdom.