§ 2.57 p.m.
§ Lord Bruce of Donington asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ On which dates was the European Community's preliminary draft budget for 1994 (Vols. 0 and 1 to 6 inclusive), or such of its contents as were communicated to them by the United Kingdom Permanent Representative of the Community prior to its publication, reviewed by the Cabinet Sub-Committee on European Questions (OPD(E)) prior to the Economic and Financial Council's establishment of the Community's draft budget on 22nd July 1993, and with what results.
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, the Government considered the preliminary draft budget of the European Communities for 1994 in the weeks leading up to 15th July, when the Paymaster General submitted an explanatory memorandum to Parliament. The explanatory memorandum set out the Government's broad objectives, which were secured at the Budget Council on 22nd July.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, is the Minister aware that he has not answered the Question on the Order Paper, which was the same as the question contained in the second part of a Question that I tabled on 28th October? I asked when the "preliminary draft budget" was considered by,
the Cabinet Sub-Committee on European Questions (OPD(E))".—[Official Report, 28/10/93; col. 929.]There ought to be an answer to the question: either it was not considered or it was. If it was, I should like to know when. That is the simple purpose of the question, and it has still not been answered. The noble Lord cannot get away with such Answers. When the Minister answers the Question again—as I trust he will—will he agree that there is much evidence to show that the £2.5 billion net subscription that the United Kingdom makes to the EC usually goes through on the nod by the British Government, without being considered in detail? If the noble Lord will look at the proceedings of Parliament over the past five years, he will see that that fact can easily be verified.
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, I gave the same Answer to the noble Lord as my noble friend Lord Caithness gave him a month ago quite simply because he asked exactly the same Question. The noble Lord expressed his 428 gratitude to my noble friend for his reply on that occasion. Therefore, I see nothing wrong in repeating the Answer. As the noble Lord is aware, it is a perfectly well-known and long-standing convention that the Government do not give details of discussions between Ministers that precede the formulation of government policy.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, but the noble Lord's right honourable friend the Prime Minister has enunciated the principle of more open government and indeed to that end has published a detailed list of ministerial responsibilities and of the composition and function of ministerial sub-committees. Why should he now seek refuge behind the ambiguities which the noble Lord, or rather his predecessor, inflicted on me on 28th October and is inflicting on me again today? Did this sub-committee consider this matter or not? What consideration of security is involved in that other than the petty conceit of not wishing to reply to a Question?
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, the noble Lord is perfectly correct. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister published a list of the committees and sub-committees of Parliament and I could, if the noble Lord wishes, detail all the members of (OPD(E)) but, as I said earlier, it is a long-standing convention that we do not give details of discussions between Ministers and we believe that this confidentiality is necessary to ensure that all policy options can be considered fully and frankly.
Lord MorrisMy Lords, the noble Lord opposite is not asking for details of the discussions: he is asking whether the discussions were held and when.
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, I simply cannot take my noble friend any further than I have taken the noble Lord opposite. The answer I have given is that we do not discuss the discussions between Ministers and their officials or between Ministers because it makes it far harder to formulate policy. I stick by that
§ Lord EatwellMy Lords, in the Government's scrutiny of the Community budget, careful or otherwise, have the Government noticed that that budget happens to be balanced? Does the noble Lord agree that his right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer has some important budgetary lessons to learn from M. Delors?
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, that is another question and the noble Lord can wait for the Budget tomorrow.
Lord Bruce of DoningtonMy Lords, will the noble Lord at least give the House an assurance, particularly in the light of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's observation that he had never read the Maastricht Treaty before he agreed with it, that he has read the Community budget?
§ Lord HenleyMy Lords, I can give the noble Lord that assurance.