Southern Iraq: Marsh Arabs (Hansard, 25 November 1993)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, we frequently raise the plight of the Marsh Arabs at the United Nations, most recently during the review of sanctions on 18th November. We have also drawn the attention of the United Nations weapons inspectors to reports that chemical weapons have been used against civilians in Southern Iraq. We support the call of the UN Special Rapporteur on Human Rights for the deployment of monitors in Southern Iraq. In addition, British aircraft are deployed over Southern Iraq in support of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that worthwhile reply. It will give great encouragement to those people who are concerned about the fact that Saddam Hussein's policy is to exterminate the southern Arabs in the marshes. As the noble Baroness said, he is using chemical weapons. He is bombing the place. He is trying to starve the people and take away their water. The noble Baroness's words will give a great deal of encouragement to those of us who are deeply concerned about the fate of the Arabs in the southern marshes. I hope that our Government will continue with the policy which the Minister has just enunciated.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I should make it clear to the House that I did not say that chemical weapons have been used. I said that we have drawn the attention of the UN weapons inspectors to reports that they have been used. There is a subtle difference. Perhaps I may say further that the special commission team sent to Iraq on 14th November to interview eye witnesses and to seek evidence has now managed to visit the marshes. If confirmed, the use of chemical weapons will obviously constitute a serious breach of Security Council Resolution 687. A sample analysis is being done. It will take some time. Although it is premature to consider now what action may be taken, we are taking a very close interest in the matter.

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, can the noble Baroness report any progress in discussions within the Security Council and elsewhere so that a formula may be devised to allow Iraq to sell immediately a limited amount of oil sufficient to alleviate the poverty, malnutrition and breakdown of public health services which have led to the deaths of more children than total casualties in the Gulf War?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, if I remember rightly, the Iraqis have it within their own hands to agree to Security Council Resolutions 706 and 712 which would certainly allow them more resources. But of course they are able to take in humanitarian goods and we have made sure that that is so. The present situation is difficult but we hope that the obligations under Resolution 688 will be complied with. Humanitarian supplies will then be able to reach all those who need them, such as those to whom the noble Lord referred.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, has the Minister noted the remarks made in another place in the debate on foreign affairs last Friday by the honourable Member who has visited the area on many occasions? She stated that Phosgene had been used against the residents of the marshes. Will the noble Baroness reconsider her statement that it would be premature to consider what steps the United Nations are likely to take when it is more or less certain that chemical weapons have been used against the victims of those attacks?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, perhaps I may advise the noble Lord that we should stick to the facts. Nobody is more in support of Miss Emma Nicholson's efforts to publicise the plight of the Marsh Arabs than we are. That is why the United Kingdom has supported her Amar appeal to the tune of half a million pounds. Whatever she may have said in the debate, I must inform your Lordships that until that analysis has been carried out, nobody is in a position to say that Phosgene, which is a chemical weapon, has been used, nor is anybody in a position to say, as I believe some commentators have done, that white phosphorous, which is not a chemical weapon but which has desperate effects on people, has been used either. As soon as we know the results of the sample analysis, we shall be able to take definitive action.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, will the Government continue to support the United Nations' report of Mr. Van Der Stoel in which he states that he believes that Saddam Hussein's policy is one of genocide with regard to the Marsh Arabs? That view is shared by the Australian, Mr. Roger Hill, who has conducted examinations and who is also of the opinion that poisonous weapons and weapons which are outlawed by the United Nations are being used on the Marsh Arabs by Saddam Hussein's government.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, refers to the second report by the Special Rapporteur, Mr. Van Der Stoel, on human rights. We condemn the widespread abuses which are being committed by Iraq in all areas of the country. That 345 report showed yesterday that there is no improvement at all. A difficulty which we face is that Iraq must accept international obligations, including Resolution 688. But I must point out to your Lordships that Resolution 688 is not a Chapter 7 resolution; in other words, it is not mandatory. Were it to be so, it might be easier for us to make progress on this matter.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, will the Minister confirm whether or not yesterday's press reports are true about Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi Government attempting to circumvent UN resolutions by storing heavy weapons within the demilitarized zone between Iraq and Kuwait? If they are true, what steps are being taken to deal with that circumvention?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I cannot tell your Lordships at the moment whether those press reports are true. When there is any information, I shall be happy to make it available to your Lordships.