Higher Education Funding (Hansard, 2 November 1993)

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, Ministers last met members of the Committee of Vice-Chancellors and Principals on 25th October to discuss various matters, including the funding of higher education.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, I declare an interest as the Chancellor of Staffordshire University. In any future discussions on this issue will the Minister bear in mind the remarkable decline in the pay of the academic staff of our universities? Since 1979 the purchasing power of non-manual employees generally has risen by over 52 per cent. whereas that of university academic staff has risen by less than 10 per cent. That is a remarkable dichotomy. Will the Minister bear in mind also that if the nosedive continues our academic standards will suffer? The best brains will no longer be attracted to our universities, and the only people who will benefit from that will be our overseas competitors.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the cost of academic salaries is only part of the cost of higher education funding. As the noble Lord is aware, there are great pressures on public spending. However, I am sure that my right honourable friend will note what he says.

§ Lord Pearson of Rannoch
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that most of us who have worked in higher education, without enjoying its terms as to pay, hours of work and holidays, find the conditions to be extremely generous? Does not my noble friend agree that terms for higher education academics are already generous, especially when compared to nurses, health workers and indeed all other employees in the public service sectors?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his comments.

§ Lord Desai
My Lords, can the Minister tell us whether the Government plan to introduce loans on a compulsory basis? Otherwise, how do they intend to finance the expansion of the student population in higher education?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the noble Lord should curb his impatience and wait for the Statement of my right honourable friend the Chancellor of Exchequer on 30th November.

§ Lord Beloff
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that it would help in the discussions of what will probably be a major change in the way in which higher education is financed if the Labour Party would produce its policy, about which it appears to be totally uncertain? That prevents political debate on the subject.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I do not believe that I am required to comment on the policies of the Labour Party.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, does the Minister agree that in terms of what is now called by the Government "productivity" the universities have done a remarkable job in the past 10 years? Fifty per cent. more students are being educated, with only a 10 per cent. increase in staff. Is the Minister aware, for example, that in the genetics department at University College, whereas once a tutorial meant an exchange of views between a professor and one or two students, it now involves 20 students? Is he aware also that owing to the cuts in government expenditure that department cannot even purchase enough bottles for the fruit flies to breed in?
Will the Government consider changing a policy which one can only compare with that of Jereboam? The noble Viscount will remember that he prided himself on chastising his people with scorpions whereas his father had only chastised them with whips.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the higher education institutions have shown that it is possible to increase productivity while maintaining quality. But there is probably scope for further productivity. An organisation as large as that which pertains to higher education must have room for further efficiencies.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, will the Minister say how far government thinking on higher 997 education is governed these days by the Robbins Report? Admittedly, it was produced some years ago. Will he not further agree that there is now a greater need, particularly in the light of what was said by my noble friend Lord Ashley, for anybody who can get anything from a university degree course to do so?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I agree entirely with the second part of the noble Lords' question.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, will the Minister answer the first and main part of the question?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I am sure that my right honourable friend bears in mind all necessary information when formulating policies on higher education.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does not the Minister agree that a serious crisis in the funding of higher education is developing? It is not only a matter of pressure on academics but also the real financial burden on students. What precise research has the Department for Education undertaken to discover how far present arrangements are a disincentive to students? Does not the Minister agree that higher education is so vital to the future of the United Kingdom that, if there is to be expansion, it must be adequately financed?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, public funding of higher education is at record levels. This year £3.9 billion will be spent, which is a rise of 7.3 per cent. on the previous fiscal year. The second part of the noble Lord's question can be well answered: 345,000 students took out loans in 1992–93; the take-up rate of 44 per cent. suggests that the majority of students are able to cope without choosing to take out a loan.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, the Minister ignored the question. What disincentive are the present arrangements to students who might otherwise go into higher education?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, when we have to hand the figures of student entries for last year, the noble Lord will find that there has been no disincentive.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, when the review takes place, can we be assured that a good deal of attention will be given to the need for more science and technology graduates than arts graduates?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, it falls under the right of freedom of choice of the higher education establishments to choose the courses according to needs.