National Vocational Qualifications (Hansard, 13 May 1993)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, the framework of national vocational qualifications is an essential part of the Government's training strategy. This framework now covers over 80 per cent. of the employed population at levels 1 to 4. The Government are satisfied that good progress is being made towards the attainment of those qualifications by people in work.

§ Lord Rochester
My Lords, the noble Viscount is a gentleman too. Has he noted the findings of a recent survey carried out of 171 organisations by Industrial Relations Services Limited in which it was found that only one in 35 employees was working towards a national or Scottish vocational qualification and that 1369 only one in 80 had attained such a qualification? If those figures are anything like representative of the overall position, does not the noble Viscount agree that, to say the least, they are most disturbing? Can he say what action, if any, is being taken to improve the position?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, over 300,000 full NVQs have been awarded to date. A number of organisations have a role to play in promoting NVQs. They include the NCVQ and industry training organisations as well as government and business. Much has already been done to promote NVQs within industries. A high profile national publicity campaign was not appropriate until NVQs were widely available. But a major campaign to put NVQs on the map was launched by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Employment this very morning. National advertising will follow in the autumn.

§ Lord Merlyn-Rees
My Lords, can the Minister say which body is responsible for verifying the standards of training organisations to allow them to participate in the vocational qualification schemes?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, we use a number of bodies for verification. Perhaps I may mention three as examples. They are the City, and Guilds, BTEC and the RSA. They also give an important quality assurance measure so that NVQs can be appreciated by all employers.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the Government are very complacent about this matter and that the situation is perhaps worse than revealed by the noble Lord, Lord Rochester? For example, is the Minister further aware that senior and middle management take hardly any part in those courses? Perhaps even more important, employers are now saying that the courses themselves and the qualifications are not relevant to their needs. Does not the Minister agree that there is hardly anything more important than that? Finally, is the Minister aware that budgets are now being quite severely cut for training in large organisations?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I certainly would not agree with the last point which the noble Lord made. The budgets for training are holding up extremely well. Of course, it is very important that employers should know what their employees can do and what is expected of them at work. The possession of a NVQ indicates that an employee has achieved that standard of competence and therefore employers can have confidence in potential employees who have NVQs, irrespective of where the qualification was obtained.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that a recent survey, which I believe was published in the Financial Times, indicates that TEC leaders are very dissatisfied with the situation and with the level of support which they have been receiving from the Government? Does that not indicate perhaps that that is a contributory factor to lower NCVQ attainment? Does not the Minister agree 1370 that something should be done about that? This is not the first time that the issue has been raised from this Dispatch Box.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, TECs are very much involved in the implementation of NVQs. In fact they are funded to put a plan of implementation forward, so they are closely involved. They are also closely involved in the assessment of prior learning. It would be wrong to suggest that because the workforce does not have NVQs it is not qualified. It is because it has a whole range of qualifications—it is the standardisation of that range which is so important—that we are promoting NVQs in the way I suggested to the noble Lord, Lord Rochester.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the noble Viscount agree that a great deal of money has gone into the development of NVQs and that, if they are to be good, it will take a great deal of money to pilot the schemes and test them? Does the Minister further agree that it will be a great pity to spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar if the money is not there in order to market them? The evidence is that there are a great many people who do not know what the initials mean and the schemes are not being taken advantage of, not only by employees but employers, because of sheet ignorance. Does the noble Viscount accept that what is needed is a firm, well-financed marketing campaign to get the scheme over? I declare an interest as chairman of an administrative body.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I entirely agree with the comments which the noble Baroness has made. It is important that the development of the framework should take place in a controlled manner. We have looked to industry training organisations. Where they have been the lead bodies for the formulation of NVQs—which they carry out with the backing of industry and employers—I believe that that means that the framework we have should be well respected by employers and that they will make good use of the schemes. Just because it has taken a little time for NVQs to be well known, I do not believe that the publicity we are now undertaking over a period of two years—because that is how long the campaign which started today will take—will not make them very well known in future.