Education Support and Training: Funding (Hansard, 24 March 1993)

§ The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Blatch)
My Lords, when the grant was introduced in 1990–91 it was made clear to local education authorities that it was for a limited period only. There was no guarantee of funding beyond 31st March 1993. That point was also confirmed in the department's circular No. 10/92, which was issued on 13th August 1992.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not appreciate that there is widespread anxiety about the consequences of the decision? Furthermore, there was great respect for what the health education co-ordinators were achieving. How does she propose that the DFE should play its part in the prevention, publicity and education advocated by the Department of Health?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I agree that there is widespread anxiety about the matter. However, it is important to put the grant, which was a pump-priming grant, into perspective. Of 109 local education authorities approximately 84 had only one co-ordinating post. The total spending for education is £19 billion and we are talking about £5 million helping to pioneer new ideas to tackle problems. If local authorities believe that the pump-priming has worked—that it is important—there are a number of ways in which they can deploy their own resources in imaginative ways.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, is this not an extraordinary time to endanger the training work that has been carried out? There is a rise in the number of drug addicts and the incidence of drug abuse leading to all kinds of problems for young people. Is the Minister satisfied that in each authority where the money is no longer available there will be in post someone to carry on the vital work?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I should like to think that local authorities were not entirely dependent upon £5 million of pump-priming money from government when they have £19 billion to deploy on what they consider to be their priorities. The Department for Education is making it a fundamental, core part of learning that young people should 324 grow up knowing how to live healthily., to eat well and to behave well; and to do so in a moral and spiritual context. That is the job of education.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my noble friend tell the House who health education co-ordinators are and what they do?

§ Lord Hailsham of St. Marylebone
My Lords, they co-ordinate health education.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I heard my noble and learned friend's aside, which is the obvious answer. Local authorities took up those small amounts of money in order to employ one person to look across a range of services and see how they could impact on improving the lifestyles of young people. The important point is that in practice families have a role to play as do the education service, school teachers and liaison with health districts. That is what the co-ordinators do. Once they have done their job it is for local authorities to continue and to develop that work.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does the Minister agree that it is not a matter of lifestyle; indeed, some of us believe that the Government are interfering far too much in people's lifestyles? It is a matter of danger to the health and well-being of such people who will be breaking the law if they take hard drugs. That is what my noble friend is talking about and that is why the Government ought to give the matter close attention.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I hope that I have conveyed to the House that the Government take the matter seriously. They have played their part by making available an education support grant, which this was, limited to three years in order to heighten the awareness of local authorities to their role in combating drug and alcohol abuse and other aspects of unhealthy living. In addition, I have here an example of a good publication which warns people of the dangers of becoming involved in drug abuse.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, how many co-ordinating jobs have been lost since the pump-priming grant ceased?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, there lies a happier story. Most local authorities saw the benefit in using somebody to co-ordinate within the authorities and to liaise with other agencies. I do not know the precise figure but I know that most local authorities which took advantage of the grant have continued the work and have built on it.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, does not the noble Baroness agree that the idea of the scheme was to aid the young people of our country? Is there anything better that we can invest in? Is not abolishing that aid the worst thing that we can do?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, that there is nothing more important in which we can invest our money. However, we invest £19 billion in the education of young people which subsumes some of this education. 325 We are talking about a small tranche of money which was used to ask local authorities to think specifically about how they could combat those awful scourges on modern society.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, if the Minister really believes that there is nothing more important, what continuing lead will the DFE give in that respect? Does not the Minister recognise the link between this issue and the widespread juvenile delinquency about which almost every Member of this House is deeply worried?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I am clearly having difficulty conveying to the noble Lord that we take this matter seriously. The noble Lord's knowledge and understanding of how the education support system works has caused a gap in his understanding of the problem. We make available £19 billion to local authorities. We make available £337 million so that local authorities can direct their attention to what the Government believe are national issues. Of that, £5 million was to be spent on the prevention of drug and alcohol abuse and, later, on health education. We have not said that those matters are not important. However, now that the local authorities have used three years' worth of pump-priming money they should now know how best to organise all their services—health, education, social services and even the police authority—to carry out their work, having had that pump-priming money to pioneer ideas.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does the noble Baroness understand that this is not a gap in understanding? It is a gap between—

§ The Lord Privy Seal (Lord Wakeham)
My Lords, I believe that it is the turn of this side of the House.

§ Lord Rippon of Hexham
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that many of us believe that the Government should give more responsibility to local authorities in many fields and that we welcome what she has said today?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I thank my noble friend. The way in which the education support grant system works allows the greatest possible collaboration and co-operation between national and local government. By that means, we achieve the best of all worlds.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that, even for her, one of her answers was perhaps somewhat abrasive? In those circumstances, does not the Leader of the House believe that my noble friend Lord Judd should be allowed to ask his question?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, of course I apologise unreservedly to the House if that was the interpretation put upon my reply. However, I believe that I should be allowed to question whether I was making myself clear because the noble Lord, Lord Judd, came back three times on the same point.

§ Lord Wakeham
My Lords, of course the noble Lord should have an opportunity to ask a 326 supplementary question. However, I was seeking to ensure that questions are put first from one side of the House and then from the other, as I believe is the tradition in your Lordships' House.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, will not the noble Baroness accept that we are concerned about the yawning gap between "easy speak" on this issue and action? We are looking for sustained action by the Department for Education.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I do not indulge in "easy speak". I never have done and I never shall do. This is much too serious a subject for that. The grant system works by national government working together with local government. Each year the priorities change and there is a moving about from one important issue to another. As I said, £19 billion is deployed in the interests of young people and we must ensure that that is spent to its best effect. I believe that we get the best of both worlds and that does not mean that we do not take the issue seriously.