Disabled People: Employment (Hansard, 11 March 1993)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, my department strongly encourages employers to adopt fair and positive employment policies towards all people. Equal opportunities are an integral part of all our employment and training provision and disabled people have special priority on our main schemes. A current marketing campaign encourages the employment of disabled people and promotes our disability symbol.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, I appreciate that reply, but is the noble Viscount aware that the current rate of unemployment among disabled people is twice the national average? That is mainly because they are discriminated against by many employers, despite the efforts of the Government. What they really need is more support services, an effective quota system and effective anti-discrimination legislation which is supported by this House but vetoed by the Government.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I believe that much of what the noble Lord said is true. We are trying to combat the discrimination which we recognise to be there. However, I would say in order to assist the noble Lord that the employment service is doing well in helping unemployed disabled people into jobs. In the period from 1st April to 31st December 1992 the service placed 31,000 unemployed people with disabilities in a job against 24,690 in the same period in 1991. That represents an increase in the placing of disabled people from 2.4 per cent. of all unemployed placings to 2.8 per cent. I am not sure that legislation will correct all the areas about which the noble Lord feels concern. It is important that we should continue with the education of employers and make certain that disabled people have a fair chance in the labour market.

§ Lady Kinloss
; My Lords, can the Minister confirm that some disabled people are being singled out for redundancy purely on the basis of their disability?

§ Viscount Ullswater
No, my Lords, I cannot confirm that. However, I understand that if a firm is 1136 not employing its quota—it may have a permit releasing it if it is difficult to fulfil its quota requirements—it would be acting illegally in that instance.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, we appreciate that there are many different ways in which disabled people can be helped back into employment. However, bearing in mind that, as the Minister knows, levels of unemployment are increasing dramatically, especially among disabled people, will the Government think again about their negative attitude to legislation? After all, it has gone through this House. Is it not right that the Government should reconsider the position, in view of the support which the House gave to non-discriminatory legislation?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, we have made clear that we are keeping the quota legislation under close review. We are very much looking at the effectiveness of legislation in other countries and I expect to have the results of research we are doing later in the year. I shall be visiting America soon to see how the AD Act is working there.

§ Lord Rix
My Lords, will the noble Viscount ensure that the issue of employment for people with disabilities is included in all 1994–95 community care plans? Furthermore, is the Minister able to say whether the very welcome support given by his department to the Arts Council initiative for the employment of disabled people in the arts will continue in the forthcoming year?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, community care is a matter for the Department of Health and local authorities under the social services provisions. However, if it were a question of employment, I should expect those bodies to consult us, our department and the TECs to see what they can do to assist people with disabilities on that front. As to the noble Lord's second question, I understand that an Arts Council report will soon be published. We look forward very much to seeing what will come out of it. We were pleased to assist in its early stages.

§ Lord Prentice
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that any employer practising discrimination against disabled workers is probably acting against the interests of his own firm? There is a great deal of evidence that in terms of their approach to hard work and conscientious attendance, disabled workers compare well with the average.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I welcome very much my noble friend's wise words. We have asked employers to look at the abilities of disabled people rather than their disabilities.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, can the Government do more to monitor the quota system? For example, can more be done in the way of an inspectorate? Should there not be fines if the quota system is not properly applied? Furthermore, how do the Government propose to safeguard the interests of the disabled in the proposal they are making in regard to the careers advisory service?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, as to the quota, there is no doubt that individual employers can meet it. However, it is arithmetically impossible for all affected employers to meet the 3 per cent. quota since registered disabled people only make up about 1 per cent of the workforce. We are talking about a registration scheme and many people do not feel that it is right nowadays to be registered. We are having to look at that very carefully.
As to the noble Baroness's second question, the most important aim is to have an effective careers service. I believe that the most effective careers service will be better at looking after disabled people than what happens now.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, why does the department not employ the statutory 3 per cent. disabled people?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, tables are published in the Employment Gazette but I do not happen to have them with me. I know that my department does, but very few others do.

§ Lord Ashley of Stoke
My Lords, the noble Viscount has been very helpful and I am delighted that he is to visit the United States. If he finds there that legislation is being enacted and is working effectively —and if he goes to France and Germany, as I hope he will, and finds that the quota system is working effectively—will he then recommend that we adopt the American system and the French and German systems on the quota?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I have to report that I have already visited France where I inspected that country's quota system. I have my own views about its effectiveness. I intend to visit America and Canada; I have been to Belgium. So I am getting a good feel for how other countries are putting the quota into practice.