Voluntary Bodies in Wales: Funding (Hansard, 1 March 1993)

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the resources available to Welsh local authorities through the annual local government revenue settlement were approved in another place on 8th February. Those resources are not hypothecated to particular services. It is for authorities to allocate their resources in the light of their statutory responsibilities and their own priorities. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales recognises that the 3.1 per cent. level of increase in settlement means that some local authorities face difficult decisions in setting their budgets. However, he considers that that is the most the country and council tax payers can at present afford.

§ Lord Aberdare
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. I had hoped for a more generous response on St. David's Day. However, does my noble friend realise how critical the situation is for voluntary bodies in Wales? The West Glamorgan County Council, for example, has cut off all its grants to voluntary bodies for the year 1993–94. In the case of the YMCA—the body I know best as I am honoured to be its president—that means a cut of more than £60,000 for that year. It has already had to send out redundancy notices to its staffs in Port Talbot and Neath. That is only the YMCA. Is my noble friend aware that there are many other organisations in West Glamorgan—the Scouts, the Girl Guides, the Duke of Edinburgh's award scheme and, particularly in Wales, the Welsh youth organisation, Urdd Gobaith Cymru. They have all suffered from the cuts. Is it not ironic, at a time when youth unemployment is so high and respect for moral values so low, that those organisations which are doing their best to solve such problems are being penalised?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, that is, unfortunately, a decision for the West Glamorgan County Council. However, the aim of the Welsh Office is to encourage, develop and maintain a vigorous and independent voluntary sector in Wales. To that end it provides in excess of £10 million a year in direct assistance to voluntary organisations in Wales, which includes a direct grant to the Welsh National Council of the YMCA. Since 1988 more than £1.4 million has been allocated to youth organisations in Wales.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that voluntary organisations are very much a part of the way of life not only in South Wales but in the whole of Wales? Why are the Government punishing Wales for having so many voluntary organisations? They do so much good and yet they appear to be anathema to the Conservative Government. Will the Government now have the courage to admit that they are wrong?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, your Lordships will be aware that many local councils find it all too easy, when they are short of cash, to penalise the voluntary 419 sector. I suggest that many of those are of a particular political persuasion. It also has the least adverse response from the trade union movement.

§ Lord Hooson
My Lords, does not the noble Viscount agree that that is an unforeseen consequence of the Government's action? In Wales so much of the support for voluntary bodies has come from local government. For example, the Welsh League of Youth stands to lose about £700,000 per annum. As the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, pointed out, many other voluntary organisations will also lose out. I believe that the Government had not foreseen that. Having had their attention drawn to it, is it not time that the Government did something about this matter?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the resources of the West Glamorgan County Council have been increased by some 23 per cent. over the past two years. These are difficult times. The maximum increase which could be set this year was 1.85 per cent.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, notwithstanding that increase, will my noble friend agree that there has been a diminution of grant available to the voluntary sector in local authority areas in Wales and, indeed, throughout the country? Will my noble friend ask his right honourable friend to note that one way to help to remedy that defect is to give funds centrally and nationally to organisations such as the Divert Trust, which I have mentioned before in this House? That has a special effort in Wales.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I shall certainly bring my noble friend's suggestion to the attention of my right honourable friend.

§ Baroness White
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that there are serious difficulties in parts of Wales? I speak with direct knowledge only of parts of South Wales—Gwent, Brecon and parts of Glamorgan. For example, the CABs are asking local authorities to take back the work which the CABs had been doing so successfully on a voluntary basis but which they cannot do without a certain amount of public financial support to pay for premises and other outgoings. I am receiving many letters on the subject. The Llanover Hall Arts Centre is an excellent place for young people to undertake worthwhile projects in an excellent atmosphere and is worthy of support. Similarly, there are day centres for drug addicts. Storey Arms is another place which I should mention, which is used for outdoor pursuits and so on. I am sure that other noble Lords have also received communications from well-run organisations. I do not know why the Chief Whip is glaring at me; in our country this is a very serious matter and deserves more attention from the Government than it has received so far.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I remind your Lordships of my original Answer to my noble friend. The Government make available to local authorities certain moneys by way of grant. Those moneys are not hypothecated and the relationship in question is between the voluntary sector and the relevant local authorities.

§ Lord Prys-Davies
My Lords, the Answer which the noble Viscount gave to the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, is not an answer to his Question. The noble Lord asked what the Government intend to do to alleviate the burden which will fall upon the voluntary sector in Wales. He has not answered that question although I believe, by implication, his answer is that the Welsh Office will do nothing and that the Welsh voluntary organisations must turn to their guardian angel, St. David. Is that right?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, it would be unreasonable in the present economic difficulties for the Government to pick out one area of local authority activity and make it a special case. The Government have made available their grants to local authorities and it is for the local authorities to fund the voluntary sector.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, would not the noble Lord, Lord Prys-Davies, be better advised to suggest to the Welsh voluntary sector that it should turn to St. Jude, the patron saint of lost causes?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I do not believe that that question requires an answer from me.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, is not the noble Viscount aware that it is at this moment of economic difficulty that the voluntary organisations have a major part to play in helping people to live a reasonable life? As president of the North Wales CAB and other organisations, I should say that those who work voluntarily are going through an extremely difficult and worrying time. Will the noble Viscount be good enough to speak again with his right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales to see whether some improvement is possible?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, of course I shall bring the comments of the noble Lord to the attention of my right honourable friend.