Overseas Aid (Hansard, 24 June 1993)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, by concentrating our aid on low-income countries we take account of the same issues as those which make up the UNDP's Human Development Index.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords, does the Minister agree that real purchasing power, levels of education and a degree of health provision are much better indicators of development than per capita GNP? If the Minister agrees with that does she also agree that there is ground for real anxieties that while developing countries as a whole are spending more than 25 per cent. of their GNP through government budgets, less than 10 per cent. of that is going to human development priorities and less than 7 per cent. of the total international aid effort is being spent on such human priorities? Is there nothing that can be done internationally to get the priorities right?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Judd, knows that I have great sympathy with him in respect of this matter because reasonable health provision and education are two of the basic necessities of any country which is seeking to grow. I agree that many of the problems, such as high population growth rates, will, if they continue unchecked, prevent many developing countries achieving a sustainable reduction in poverty. That is why we have made people's choice about their fertility a focus for our aid. We have also shown that once family planning services and education for girls are widely available the whole of village life begins to grow in a way that nothing else can achieve. Whatever the percentage, until there is better provision for health and basic education we shall have that problem. That is why we are concentrating our resources in a number of our projects on specifically those issues. We are encouraging our partners as donors to do likewise.

§ Lord Bridges
My Lords, as chairman of the United Nations Children's Fund in this country I greatly acknowledge the assistance which the ODA has given to UNICEF for its programmes which provide these basic humanitarian needs. Most recently it gave £500,000 to UNICEF's programme in southern Sudan. Does the Minister agree that while some of the targets mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Judd, may 466 be somewhat visionary and idealistic, an investment in health, education and housing is the best foundation for prosperous and democratic societies which we should encourage everywhere in the world?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, for what he said about the ODA's work with UNICEF. UNICEF is carrying out some magnificent work throughout the world and we try to support that whenever we can.
I realise the sincerity of the view put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Judd. However, the noble Lord, Lord Bridges, is right in saying that the basic elements, not only as described by the noble Lord, Lord Judd, but the provision that is made often through the non-governmental organisations and some of the United Nations agencies, make such a difference. In the last full financial year for which f have figures—that is 1991–92—about 30 per cent. of our bilateral aid was spent on the basic needs of healthcare and education. More resources were spent by the multilateral agencies on similar needs.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is it not true that when we give aid to southern Sudan it is almost invariably all wasted because they are very busy killing each other? The only thing that will make progress possible is peace and trade. It has been shown time after time that most of the aid has been wasted and it has done nothing to improve the lot of people about whom all of us, including myself, care.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand what my noble friend says. However, in addition to peace in southern Sudan, the work of the British non-governmental agencies in providing vaccination and basic healthcare is necessary. Peace without health will not enable the people of southern Sudan ever to reach the position of being able to trade. While that may be what we most want them to do, without health they will go nowhere.

§ Lord John-Mackie
My Lords, does the Minister agree that not nearly enough is being done, because the latest figures show that during the past few years the number of people starving in the world has risen from 1,300 million to 1,500 million? It is obvious that there is still a great deal to be done, and I should like to think that our Government are doing everything that they possibly can.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord John-Mackie, for his question. I assure him that we are doing everything that we possibly can, in particular to target our aid so that it helps the people in the worst possible position who can be helped, and so that it provides the foundation for their own economic activity wherever that can be helped. I can give the noble Lord that assurance because we are told from independent sources that our aid is among the best targetted and the best delivered in the world, thanks to our non-governmental organisations as well as our own organisation.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, may I assure the noble Baroness that the view expressed by the noble 467 Earl, Lord Onslow, is not shared by any Member on these Benches and I suspect that it is shared by only a small minority in this House?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter. Perhaps I may point out that not to have trade is also an inhibitor of growth in developing countries. What they need above all is trade as well as aid; they cannot do without either.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, the Government's record on aid and help is very good indeed. However, is it not time that the United Nations and other countries tried to emulate the endeavours of this country? They have not succeeded in getting anywhere near what the British Government are doing to provide aid and help where it is required.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Molloy, is being a little unfair on other donors; some are trying very hard. But no donor can improve the lot of these countries unless there is the willing participation of the recipient country to spend its money wisely. One of the reasons why this country has led the way in trying to improve the standards of government in developing countries is in order to ensure that those governments spend their resources wisely.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister, in responding to my noble friend Lord Bonham-Carter, was not implying that we on these Benches have been anything other than consistently determined in supporting improvements in free trade while other parties have wandered from time to time. Will the Minister confirm that?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Seear, is right in saying that there has never been any doubt about the commitment of the Liberal Democrats to the need for trade. The only difficulty is that just as she accuses others of sometimes having wandered, over-regulation can impede trade. One of the things that we do not wish to see is over-regulation. Without straying into our later debates perhaps I may say that none of us is perfect, but we are all trying hard.

§ Lord Judd
My Lords does the Minister accept that in all parts of the House there will be great support for her in her humanitarian commitment and, indeed, in the battles that I am sure she will be having in the months ahead to secure the financial resources to turn her commitment into even greater action in the field? Will she agree that there are many success stories such as Costa Rica, Sri Lanka and Tanzania where human development ratings are way ahead of GNP ratings? Is there not more opportunity for the international community to study those success stories and to build on them?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I can recommend to anyone who feels like some good reading the Human Development Report 1993 from the United Nations. It is one of its best publications in 468 which there are many success stories—it is not all gloom and doom. Nor is that the case in Africa, as is sometimes portrayed. I hope that we can build on the good potential. That is what needs to be done.

§ Baroness Robson of Kiddington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that those NGOs in this country involved in family planning and population and development are deeply grateful to her for her efforts at the ODA to help those NGOs? We hope sincerely that she will be able to double that effort in the future.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her comments.