Lambeth Borough Council (Hansard, 23 June 1993)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Strathclyde)
My Lords, the state of affairs revealed by the external auditors at Lambeth borough council is deplorable. Under the competitive tendering legislation my right honourable friend has issued five notices alleging financial and accounting irregularities in respect of 342 Lambeth's direct labour organisation. He is currently considering whether further statutory action is justified. If appropriate, my right honourable friend can direct that the council cease carrying out certain work or put that work out to re-tender.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Will he indicate whether it is likely that the Government will take the action that he indicates is possible? Furthermore, will he tell us whether there is a case for referring some of those issues to the Director of Public Prosecutions?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, from the Government's point of view, we must await certain responses from Lambeth borough council so that we can take a view as to what is the appropriate action. As regards the district auditor's report, it is entirely a matter for the district auditor to decide what to do next and whether to address those issues with the Director of Public Prosecutions.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, will the noble Lord, Lord Strathclyde, accept that it is a policy of my party, and I hope that it is the policy of all your Lordships, to root out fraud and maladministration wherever it occurs whether it is at Community, government, quango, NHS trust, local authority or any other level? That is our policy and I hope that the noble Lord will recognise that.

§ Lord Strathclyde
Yes, my Lords.

§ Lord Mellish
My Lords, will the Minister understand clearly that, while we certainly do not approve of what Lambeth borough council is doing or the way in which it is doing it, we ask him to give us an assurance that as a Minister he will not regard Lambeth as the be-all and end-all of all local authority work? The vast majority of local authorities do a first-class, fine job and they should not be treated in that way.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I agree entirely with the noble Lord, Lord Mellish, that most local authorities do an extremely good and effective job of running their local authorities for the benefit of local people. But clearly something has gone wrong in Lambeth.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, will the noble Lord agree that we all—and particularly those of us who live in Lambeth—owe a considerable debt of gratitude to Mr. Herman Ouseley, the former, very courageous chief executive who exposed what was going on in Lambeth in what must have been an extremely difficult situation? Will the noble Lord agree also that had Lambeth council been elected on the basis of proportional representation, that extremist group would never have been in power?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, we must live in the real world. Proportional representation is not with us. I agree with the noble Baroness's comments about the former chief executive.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, in accordance with what my noble friend Lord Williams of Elvel said 343 from the Front Bench, I say today and I have said before that I have no time for local authority people of any party who act in an arbitrary manner and who may go outside the law. Is the Minister aware that some of the councillors deemed to be involved in Lambeth have triggered a court action against a Member of another place who made certain statements questioning their honesty? If that is the case, I believe that your Lordships should be extremely careful as regards discussing this matter at present, bearing in mind that court action.

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I believe that there is no harm in anybody in this House declaring that fraud is wrong wherever it occurs, and particularly where it occurs in local authorities.

§ Lord Dean of Beswick
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the London borough of Bromley, which is Conservative controlled, is becoming the subject of the same searchlight as Lambeth? Is it not strange that the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, has not included that borough in his Question?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, the procedures of the House allow the noble Lord to ask any question that he wants. If he wishes to table such a Question on the Order Paper, I shall be delighted to answer it.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is no duty on any Member of this House to take up every case of fraud by local authorities? If there were such a duty, would it not mean that we should be likely to exceed the ration of two Questions on the Order Paper at any one time?

§ Lord Strathclyde
My Lords, I always enjoy my noble friend's Questions, but in this case he is probably quite right.