HL Deb 15 June 1993 vol 546 cc1422-4

2.54 p.m.

The Earl of Clanwilliam asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they intend to support organic farmers with a sum proportional to that given to the Countryside Commission in support of the Stewardship Campaign and, if not, why not.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Howe)

My Lords, the Government are considering responses to our consultation documents on the several schemes to be introduced under the EC regulation on agriculture and the environment. Decisions on the precise allocation of resources between these schemes will be taken in the light of those responses.

The Earl of Clanwilliam

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, which is understood. I fully agree with the aims and ambitions of the Countryside Commission and of the Stewardship Campaign. I am sure that the £35 million that they have been offered will be truly spent. Does my noble friend agree that in the Stewardship Campaign the items that are of importance contain, for instance, the conservation and restoration of hay meadows, at £70 a hectare, and the regeneration of grasslands with a light application of well rotted manure? Is that not exactly what organic farming is about? Why should not the same happy state of £225 a hectare for grasslands equally apply to organic farmers?

Earl Howe

My Lords, decisions have not yet been taken on the final shape of the aid package under the agri-environment arrangements. However, I think my noble friend would agree that the size of the aid scheme for organic farming must be viewed in the light of the very small size of the organic sector, which currently comprises less than 1 per cent. of land area. One of our objectives is to triple the area of land farmed organically, which would be a very worthwhile increase.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, can the noble Earl define in precise terms what he means by an organic farmer? Is there such a thing as a farmer who is part organic and part non-organic?

Earl Howe

My Lords, it is certainly possible for a farmer to farm under conventional systems as well as organic systems. Organic farming and production systems are designed to promote management practices which aim to avoid the use of agro-chemical inputs and which minimise damage to the environment and wildlife. Among the objectives of organic farming is the maintenance of valuable existing landscape features and adequate habitats, careful attention to animal welfare and consideration for the wider social and ecological impact of the farming system.

Lord Renton

My Lords, will my noble friend bear in mind that food produced by organic farming is said to be better for people's health than food produced by other means? Does he accept that organic farming is quite compatible with the set-aside policy? Will he bear those factors in mind when developing the various schemes that he has mentioned?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I would take slight issue with my noble friend on his first statement. The fact is that we have very strict controls on the pesticides and other chemicals used in farming and food processing; so it is not generally necessary to buy organic food to ensure a good and healthy diet. But it is equally true that some people prefer food produced organically; and their demands should be recognised.

My noble friend makes a very interesting point with regard to set-aside which, I do not think organic farmers should forget, does assist them, particularly with regard to the amount of area payment that they receive, which is based on regional yields as opposed to organic yields, as well as in helping them to convert to organic systems.

Lord Carter

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the other and shorter definition of organic farming, which is a system of farming that is based on muck, mystery and magic? Is he further aware that opinion among conservation bodies is somewhat divided regarding the environmental benefits of organic farming? The case is generally regarded as not proven. If the Government are to grant-aid organic farming, what steps will they take to ensure that some genuine environmental benefits result?

Earl Howe

My Lords, well practised organic farming is a system which makes the best use of available natural nitrogen resources. But the skills needed are specialist skills and it has to be done well. If it is not done properly, it should not be assumed that organic farming is necessarily better for the environment. With regard to the noble Lord's second question, he will be aware that the standards laid down by UK ROFS, the supervisory body for organic farming, stipulate very detailed organic rules which all organic farmers should be following.

The Earl of Clanwilliam

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for the kind assurance that the intention is to treble the amount of organic farming presently in hand, which will create a system of some 100,000 hectares. If that is to be the case, I am confident that my noble friend will ensure that enough money is available to encourage them to do it against the intervention of our EC competitors, who are flooding the market with highly subsidised goods.

Earl Howe

My Lords, I take note of my noble friend's comments. He is of course quite right in that certain other EC countries have seen a dramatic increase in their organic production over the past few years. As regards Germany, the rate of expansion was far too rapid, resulting in serious disruption of the market. As I have said, we must remember that the organic sector is still small and its growth should be managed carefully.