HL Deb 09 June 1993 vol 546 cc925-6

2.43 p.m.

Lord Jay asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they expect the German constitutional court to rule on the constitutional validity in Germany of the Treaty of Maastricht.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)

My Lords, I heard this morning that the German constitutional court will hold an oral hearing on the constitutional validity of the Maastricht Treaty on 29th June, but that a ruling is unlikely to be given before September.

Lord Jay

My Lords, in that case, as the German authorities are wisely carrying out a careful, detailed and unhurried examination of the treaty, particularly in its constitutional aspects, is it not highly desirable that this House should do the same?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I am quite sure that your Lordships' House will give a very thorough investigation to the Bill which has now had its Second Reading. I look forward to the further stages.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, will the noble Baroness give the House an undertaking that her department's lawyers will carefully examine the recent opinion produced by Mr. Clive Stanbrook, QC, who has given some wise opinions on the subject? In any event, will she make quite sure that when the ministerial sub-committee on European questions, OPD(E), next meets, her lawyers will be there, together with the Attorney-General, who is a permanent member of the sub-committee, in order that there should be no public conflict as regards their views?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I sincerely hope that the QC named by the noble Lord took advice from him because the QC's advice would obviously not be complete without the noble Lord's views.

When any Cabinet committee meets, we now know, after the noble Lord's superb performance in the House yesterday, that we must be extremely careful what we say or it will end up in a new series of "Yes, Minister"!

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, the noble Baroness will recall that during the two-day debate many dire warnings were sounded as to what would happen and the dire consequences if Britain did not ratify the Maastricht Treaty. If the German courts will not allow the Germans to ratify it, will those dire consequences be visited upon them? Perhaps the noble Baroness could outline exactly what the consequences are.

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I think that I have been in your Lordships' House long enough now to know that it would be quite wrong to speculate, not only about the courts of the United Kingdom but about those of a member country within the Community. I can only say to the noble Lord that I believe that there would be very serious consequences indeed for the Federal Republic of Germany, particularly for the new Bundeslander, if they were not to succeed. However, that is a matter for the German Government.

Lord Richard

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell us whether there has been a preliminary ruling in the case? I understood that the German court had given some indication on a preliminary basis, but that the permanent one was to come in September. Can she confirm the position? If so, what is it?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey ;

No, my Lords, I cannot confirm what the noble Lord, Lord Richard, said. What I do know is that the German Foreign Ministry expects the court to take about three months. That is the reason for the Answer I gave earlier. There are various speculations around, but I cannot confirm what the noble Lord said in his question.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, has the noble Baroness given thought to the possibility that as our debates on the Maastricht Treaty were delayed pending the referendum in Denmark, perhaps they ought to be further delayed pending the decision of the German courts?

Baroness Chalker of Wallasey

My Lords, I think that after the result of the Third Reading in another place, there is no need for that.