HL Deb 22 July 1993 vol 548 cc794-6

3.25 p.m.

Lord Morris of Castle Morris asked Her Majesty's Government:

What progress has been made in implementing the Citizen's Charter in the two years since its announcement in the White Paper published on 22nd July 1991.

The Parliamentary Secretary, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Earl Howe)

My Lords, excellent progress has been made. The Citizen's Charter: First Report 1992, published in November 1992, showed that over 90 per cent. of the commitments contained in the original Citizen's Charter had been met or tackled. The report also listed over 80 further measures for improving public services. Those, too, are being implemented.

Lord Morris of Castle Morris

My Lords, I am much obliged to the Minister for that informative Answer. May I further ask him: how much has all this cost?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I think that a more relevant question would be to ask what the costs would have been of not having a Citizen's Charter. Poor service in the public sector leads to inefficiency, and that greatly adds to costs. However, on the purely literal plane of the supplementary question, the total production, publication and distribution costs for White Papers and follow up charters come to about £8 million.

Lord Mackie of Benshie

My Lords, has the noble Earl any figures to show how much the charter has improved the standing of the Government?

Earl Howe

My Lords, the purpose of the charter is to empower the consumer; it is not meant to do anything for the standing of the Government, although I hope that in the process it has done so. Public services exist to benefit those who use and pay for them. The charter recognises their right to high quality services; to know how well the services perform; and to demand redress when things go wrong.

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the Citizen's Charter is an important aspect of the campaign to change the philosophy in many public services from one where it is a matter of the number of people who are employed in the service, to one in which it is the service which is given to the customer and consumer? Is not the Citizen's Charter an important step in that kind of change which will benefit every consumer and every taxpayer by providing better services in areas like the health service which will look at the service as something which is given to customers rather than an institution which exists to employ people?

Earl Howe

My Lords, my noble friend is right. One only has to look at the achievements to date of the Citizen's Charter to bear out what he said. As a result of the Patient's Charter, the two-year waiting time for hospital admissions has been met virtually everywhere. Under the terms of the Passenger's Charter, there are compensation schemes in British Rail, London Underground and the utilities. As a result of the Benefits Agency Customer Charter, the five-day target for clearing income support claims has been reduced to four days.

Baroness Seear

My Lords, does the noble Earl realise that some of us are extremely glad to hear him refer to the Passenger's Charter if, by that, he means people who travel on British Rail? We do not all like being called "customers- when we are passengers.

Earl Howe

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, and am fully in agreement with what she said.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that the Government are supposed to fulfil a public service? Will he give some indication as to whether, at some time in the future—soon, we hope—the Government will live up to the promises that they made at the recent general election?

Earl Howe

My Lords, it is because the Citizen's Charter permeates all departments of central government that we can point to the success of the past two years in implementing our aims.

Baroness Robson of Kiddington

My Lords, can the Minister tell us, apart from the one example that he gave—namely, from five days to four days—to what extent publication of the Citizen's Charter and the rights given thereunder have reduced the time that it takes to get redress?

Earl Howe

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a very important point. That is why we have set up, on a pilot basis, the charter line scheme, which will enable those who wish to know where to complain to to have a number to telephone, whereupon they will be given the requisite information. There is a bewildering array of public organisations. It is important that the consumer knows where to turn.

Lord Ewing of Kirkford

My Lords, does the Minister think that the outstanding success of the Government over the past few years will be reflected in the result of the Christchurch by-election next Thursday night?

Earl Howe

My Lords, I have every confidence that that will be the case.