§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord Avebury asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will consult the United Nations Secretary-General about the possibility of establishing an international commission of inquiry into the massacre of 700 people at Harbel, Liberia, on 5th June.
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, the UN Secretary-General has set in hand a full investigation into this appalling incident. That inquiry is still in progress and we await its findings.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, will the noble Baroness confirm that the preliminary report by Mr. Trevor Gordon-Somers was in the hands of the Secretary-General as long ago as 1st July? Why has it not been published? Would the noble Baroness care to say anything about the suggestion which we have made that forensic experts, and particularly ballistic experts, be employed so that they can identify the weapons that were used in this appalling massacre which, on a prima facie case, seem to have been those of the armed forces of Liberia —the former remnants of President Doe's forces—who were in charge of guarding the compound?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, there is no clear evidence yet as to who was responsible. There are different accounts from survivors of the massacre. I do not believe it would be right to anticipate the findings of the UN Secretary-General's inquiry. I hope, however, that the further investigations which the UN is no doubt conducting will get the facts right. Speed is not the priority; getting the facts right is.
§ Lord JuddMy Lords, does not the Minister agree that this truly appalling story illustrates the importance and urgency of establishing standing international machinery for dealing with war crimes because in internal conflicts of this kind there should be no doubt on the part of those who perpetrate massacres, or any other atrocities, that they will be brought to book by the international community?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, we support the study of the UN International Law Commission on the possibility of establishing an international criminal court with universal jurisdiction in the longer term. But the establishment of a UN international criminal court is unlikely to take place just yet because the work is still in its very early stages. I understand that there are significant legal and administrative difficulties to be overcome but I have much sympathy with the view that the noble Lord, Lord Judd, expressed; namely, that we must do all that we possibly can to overcome the difficulties.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, is the Minister aware that we wholeheartedly agree that the priority should be getting the facts right? In that connection will she say how many times Mr. Gordon-Somers has been to Harbel and how many experts he has employed—whether police or ballistics experts—to try to identify the facts, and how many witnesses of the offence he has personally interviewed? Will the noble Baroness answer my first question on whether or not Mr. Gordon-Somers is employing ballistics experts and whether the weapons belonging to the AFL troops who were guarding the compound have been impounded so that they can be subjected to examination?
§ Baroness Chalker of WallaseyMy Lords, much as the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, might wish it, Mr. Gordon-Somers is not answerable to me; he is answerable to the United Nations Secretary-General. I therefore do not have details of all the things that he has done, the people that he has taken with him or the 519 investigations that he has undertaken. What I can tell the noble Lord is that we are quite determined, as are all those involved in ECOWAS, that a proper outcome which establishes the true facts shall be achieved. I know that the United Nations Secretary-General is well aware of the demand for this.