Bosnia: Peace Plan Initiative (Hansard, 13 July 1993)

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Chalker of Wallasey)
My Lords, the latest peace plan for Bosnia Herzegovina is a Serbian and Croatian initiative, to which the Bosnian presidency is now considering its response. The co-chairmen are using their good offices to encourage all three parties to engage in serious negotiations.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for her reply. Are the British Government prepared to accept the division of Bosnia into three or more parts? If that is to be part of the agreement, as now seems likely, will the international community have the difficult task of policing the implementation of an agreed plan?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords. I point out to my noble friend that it is not for the UK Government to accept; it is for the three parties to accept whatever peaceful plan can be arrived at. One of the difficulties has been that the plan currently being put forward has come from just two of the three parties. The third party, which is the Moslems or the Bosnian presidency, has not yet sat down to discuss it. Even if there were an internationally acceptable agreement there would be the need to go back to the Security Council if the international community were to be involved in monitoring and implementing that settlement. But I fear that we are some days—if not some weeks—away from that at this stage.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, does the Minister accept that the UN policy of providing safe havens has not been a success? Does she agree that the havens are not safe for the peace-keepers, the aid workers or the civilian population, with continuous shelling, frequent sniping and the collapse of the infrastructure? If she accepts, as surely she must, that that policy has been 119 a tragic failure, what proposals will the UK Government be making in the Security Council to replace it?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, first, I must point out to the noble Baroness that they were never safe havens in the sense that we were able to implement a safe havens policy in the Kurdish areas of Iraq. The safe areas were intended to provide greater protection to the population in the most vulnerable Moslem centres. Some have begun to give some respite, but others, as the noble Baroness says, have not been a success. But we all know well why that is so. Until there is a lasting settlement, many of those areas will not be respected by one party or another. The safe areas idea was never a policy for the long term, but if the troop and equipment requirements necessary to implement safe areas can be met and the parties to the conflict will allow them to be met, we may have some chance of making them a success. The NATO planning continues to provide air support. That planning is well advanced.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, does the Minister agree that there was a possibility of the safe havens proposal being successful when it was first suggested by my right honourable friend about 18 months ago? The fact is that the safe havens were established much too late. Does she also agree that it is high time that we had a full debate on this problem? It is impossible to discuss this tragic situation constructively or sensibly by Question and Answer or by comments and Statements.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand the frustration which the noble Lord expresses, but I must advise him that at the time that his right honourable friend the Leader of the Liberal Party proposed such an idea there was no chance of actually implementing it. I do not believe that the noble Lord is right on that point. The situation in Bosnia is very different from that which existed where we did succeed in having safe havens. I believe that we shall succeed in giving the protection which we want to give to the Moslem people in Bosnia only as an international community and provided that greater progress is made on an agreement. That is what we are working full out to achieve as is the noble Lord, Lord Owen, as the noble Lord, Lord Bonham-Carter, knows.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the advantage of the present proposals is that they are proposals for discussions between the parties concerned and that we must wish them well because that is the only kind of settlement which has any chance of sticking?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I would be a good deal more encouraged if I could see that the Moslems in Bosnia were ready to consider a response. The Bosnian presidency have met a number of times in the past three weeks to consider their response. I understand that they will now inform the cochairmen, the noble Lord, Lord Owen, and Mr. 120 Stoltenberg, of their Bosnian counter-proposals, but we can only hope that that happens soon because the sooner that the talking continues, the more chance there may be of some agreement. In that sense, the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins of Putney, is right.

§ Baroness Williams of Crosby
My Lords, perhaps I may first pay tribute to the noble Baroness and to our troops in Bosnia for their tremendous work. I should like to ask her about the desperately urgent situation at present in Sarajevo and in Gorazde where water supplies have been cut off and where I understand that the first incidences of serious numbers of typhoid cases are emerging. Can the noble Baroness say whether the United Kingdom Government can make urgent representations about trying to get a fresh water supply to the people of Sarajevo who have consistently supported the idea of a multi-cultural and multi-ethnic society?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for what she has said. Perhaps I may advise her that in my discussions yesterday morning with Mrs. Ogata in London, I announced specifically £6.5 million for infrastructure work which will enable our British engineers who are in Bosnia now, keeping the coal-mines going, opening up new seams and getting the power supplies going, to do the very things for which she has asked. We have been so engaged for some nine months or more and shall continue to be engaged for as long as we can reasonably protect our people who are bravely working there.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is it not time that we actually faced up to reality? What we are looking at is a Serb and Croat carve-up of the Moslem areas of Bosnia-Herzegovina. We must either take it upon ourselves in the whole of the Western world or the United Nations to protect the Moslems and to stop what is happening or we should stand aside and not interfere. What we cannot do is what we are doing at the moment, which is taking the worst of all possible measures by prolonging a siege when it would have been over, and prolonging the discomfort and all the rest. People may well moan, but it seems to me to be historic. Is my noble friend not aware that that is the case? That is what has happened.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I am afraid that my noble friend has it wrong. There is no way that the Western world could have stood aside and denied humanitarian aid to those people. Just going along with the two stronger protagonists out of three strong protagonists will not bring peace to the Balkans. Had we not taken the action that we did, I fear that the conflict would have spread even further.

§ Lord Carver
My Lords, do the Government believe that, whether peace is obtained on the basis of the Vance-Owen plan, the present plan, or any other plan, Bosnia-Herzegovina is capable of being maintained as a viable, independent state?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, it is almost impossible to say whether Bosnia-Herzegovina will be a viable entity in the future. What I know is 121 that all the work put into the Vance-Owen peace plan has formed a sensible basis for some of the current negotiations. We have a great deal more information about the area as a result of that work than we would otherwise have. We must now involve all three parties in a plan to which they will stick. I do not give up hope of that. There are some positive signs. The discussions are still continuing. We shall do all that we can to bring about peace.

Lord Campbell of Croy
My Lords, while we must hope that the antagonists will reach agreement this time, will my noble friend convey to her right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary the appreciation of some of us of his patience and his warnings t hat there is a limit to the forbearance of the United Nations which is at present providing humanitarian aid, protecting it, and saving lives?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I thank my noble friend, and of course I shall do as he asks.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, will the Minister confirm a report in The Times today that there are only seven UN monitors in Gorazde and that the UN Secretary-General is trying, but has been unsuccessful, to raise a further 7,500 troops for UN work in Bosnia?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I cannot confirm the exact situation or numbers in Gorazde at the moment. I am aware that the Secretary-General has been successful in raising some of the troops, as I said in answer to a Question in the House last week.