HL Deb 12 July 1993 vol 548 cc4-6

2.45 p.m.

Lord Molloy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the light of the views of the British Medical Association on the future of the NHS and London's hospitals, discussions will be initiated between the Department of Health and the British Medical Association.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Baroness Cumberlege)

My Lords, the Department of Health has regular discussions with the British Medical Association on a wide range of issues.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that reply. I had in mind the very special conference of the British Medical Association which has just taken place where Dr. Macara expressed grave anxiety about what has happened to several London hospitals. Will the Minister accept that he is completely uncertain about the future of our National Health Service and that he was supported by all members of the British Medical Association? Is she further aware that Dr. Macara's statement and the BMA's massive support for its president have received support from the Royal College of Nursing, the Health Visitors—

Noble Lords

Order!

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does not the noble Baroness agree that all these associations are devoted to our National Health Service and are at one in having grave anxiety about its future?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, clearly when there are major changes afoot people are concerned. But I have just read the report of the annual general meeting of the BMA which was published in the British Medical Journal. My reading of it is that there was support for the proposals for London subject to certain conditions.

Lord Mackay of Ardbrecknish

My Lords, before noble Lords take the views of the BMA as holy writ, can my noble friend recall that the BMA opposed the setting up of the National Health Service in the 1940s?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I believe that is the case. The BMA opposed the reforms as it opposed GP fund-holding. But I am glad to be able to tell your Lordships that at the last AGM it turned turtle and actually supported GP fund-holding.

Baroness Gardner of Parkes

My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the discussions which are taking place with the regional health authorities and all the other bodies in London are very detailed? Is she aware that I was present at one such meeting recently concerning Bart's Hospital where a decision was made that every aspect of local need should be assessed very carefully? Is she further aware that these matters are not being decided in haste?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, my noble friend is right. Decisions taken on London hospitals will put patients first. They will also take into account the needs of staff. The London implementation group has already set up a clearing house for those who wish to look to their future, which perhaps may not be in London.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that I certainly admit that the BMA, at the inception of the NHS, did not wish it to be born? Does the Minister agree that our nation was very lucky in having one of its greatest politicians responsible for creating the NHS and that that is why the name of Nye Bevan will remain long in the history of our country, together with that of my noble friend Lord Bruce of Donington, who assisted?

Noble Lords

Hear, hear!

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that all professions are anxious about the future of the NHS, that the nation is alarmed and that family experiences support the associations' belief that there is grave danger of our National Health Service slowly but surely being destroyed?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, Nye Bevan was before my time, but I know that he has a splendid reputation among Labour politicians.

We are anxious to get the decisions on London right. I know that many people—not least in your Lordships' House—are concerned about that and want to ensure that services in London are improved in the future. That is the Government's whole intention. As my noble friend has just said, we shall ensure that that happens and that careful consideration is given before decisions are made.