HL Deb 28 January 1993 vol 541 cc1365-7

3.14 p.m.

Lord Merrivale asked Her Majesty's Government:

What action they will take to reduce the long delays experienced by vehicular traffic entering Spain from Gibraltar; and whether they are aware of the submissions made by the inhabitants of Gibraltar to the European Citizen Action Service in Brussels concerning this problem.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we are aware that some Gibraltarians have written to the European Citizen Action Service in Brussels about delays at the border between Gibraltar and Spain. We are watching the situation closely. Delays tend to be intermittent.

The Spaniards are well aware of our view that there should be the maximum possible free movement of EC nationals at internal borders commensurate with controlling the movement of terrorists, drug smugglers, other international criminals and illegal immigrants.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for that Answer. However, will the matter of barriers to free movement at that frontier be raised at the bilateral ministerial meeting in Madrid early in March? Will steps be taken to seek mediation assistance from the Danish presidency as well as support from other EC members? Such action on the part of the Spanish authorities is certainly not in accord with the Community spirit.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, if specific action by the Spanish customs caused lasting and unusually long delays at the frontier we would speak to the Spanish authorities in Madrid. So far, any problems have been resolved on the spot between Gibraltarian and Spanish officers, which is a good example of local co-operation. There is a draft convention called the External Frontiers Convention. Eleven countries are willing to sign but there has been no agreement with Spain that it should be extended to Gibraltar. The Danes have said that they would like to find a solution within their presidency and so would we. We look forward to seeing their proposals.

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, does not the Minister agree that as much damage is done to Spain as to Gibraltar in restricting the traffic? Will the Government give the strongest support to the representations being made by Gibraltar to the European Services Commission in Brussels?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am not aware of any restrictions on traffic. Delays can occur but they are usually short lived.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the trouble on the border with Gibraltar arises directly from the continuing dispute over the Gibraltar airport? I have had the opportunity of seeing Mr. Joe Bossano at least three times over the past three years and he is a reasonable man. Would it not be wise to have consultations between the British Government and Mr. Joe Bossano with a view to resolving the major difficulties and ensuring that they are not caught up with the civil service bureaucracy in Brussels?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, consultations between the UK Government and Mr. Joe Bossano are constant. Spain is perfectly within its right to carry out border controls. Gibraltar chose to be outside of the Community customs territory and arrangements by virtue of her omission from Council Regulation 2151/84, which defines the customs territory.

Lord Brougham and Vaux

My Lords, is not my noble friend aware that the traffic problems between Spain and Gibraltar are caused by the fact that petrol is so much cheaper in Gibraltar than it is in Spain? The Spaniards are driving over in droves with their jerrycans and cars, bribing the customs on the Spanish side with cigarettes, which is causing the delays.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I happen to know that my noble friend knows that road pretty well. There are many reasons for delays.

Lord Monson

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the country which is causing so many difficulties for our Gibraltarian friends is now receiving substantial sums of money from the British taxpayer under the cohesion proposals agreed at the Edinburgh Summit last December, even though the Spanish standard of living is only slightly lower than our own? Is that not a further reason for the Spanish to adopt a more friendly attitude towards the Gibraltarians?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am not aware that the Spanish have a particularly unfriendly attitude. As I said before, there are many reasons why there is such heavy traffic. Spanish public holidays cause extra traffic. Sometimes on the basis of a tip-off the Spanish customs officials decide to conduct thorough searches of vehicles and people crossing into Spain. There is a real problem with tobacco smuggling.

Baroness Blackstone

My Lords, does the Minister agree that many of the traffic hold-ups between Spain and Gibraltar are caused by normal holiday traffic? Having just visited Gibraltar myself, I was totally unaware of any difficulties caused by Spanish officials. Does she also agree that the state of the roads on the Gibraltar side of the border leaves much to be desired? Perhaps she will ask the Government to make representations to the Gibraltar authorities about that.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I shall pass on those remarks to the right quarters.

Lord Whaddon

My Lords, does the noble Baroness appreciate that some of us may feel that she is treating the subject a little lightly?

Noble Lords

No!

Lord Whaddon

My Lords, there are tremendous hold-ups. Is the noble Baroness aware that only a fortnight ago it took me 45 minutes to go from Gibraltar into Spain at midday? Frequently one hears of three-hour delays. Clearly, Spanish customs are delaying people for petty reasons. Will she continue to make urgent representations in this regard?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I would be very upset if your Lordships thought that I was treating this matter in a light-hearted way. Indeed I was not. The Spanish authorities and the Gibraltar authorities work side by side in the rather cramped conditions that exist on the frontier. I am sorry that the noble Lord had a delay. As I said, delays are intermittent and occur for many reasons.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, will my noble friend give reassurance to the people of Gibraltar who sometimes feel very beleaguered by confirming that the British Government will continue to use their best endeavours to ensure that no impasse develops, which could only be detrimental to people living on both sides of the frontier?

Baroness Trumpington

Yes, my Lords.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, perhaps I may ask the Minister a further question because I feel strongly on this subject, having visited Gibraltar for many years. With delays of two hours, three-and-a-half hours and four hours, I trust the Minister will agree that by their actions the Spanish authorities are seeking to discourage Spaniards from visiting, working and shopping in Gibraltar, thus hurting the Gibraltar economy. Therefore, should not remedial action be taken very soon?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I have to say that this is news to me. It is for the Spaniards who might be affected to take up this matter with their own authorities.