Falkland Islands (Hansard, 1 February 1993)

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, our policy on sovereignty remains unchanged. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary made clear both before and during his visit that there is no change in our position about sovereignty over the Falkland Islands.

Lord Morris
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. But in view of the statement made by Foreign Minister di Tella on 11 th January after the meeting that there had been "spectacular changes" in relations between Argentina and Britain, and bearing in mind the statement by President Menem on 12th January in which he dismissed the suggestion of shared sovereignty and went on to say, It will be full sovereignty, or we will continue to struggle to get it", and that this would be achieved by the year 2000, without a single drop of blood", does not my noble friend believe that the islanders have a considerable amount to be concerned about, bearing in mind also the fisheries regime which they believe very strongly will seriously jeopardise their main source of income?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand what my noble friend is saying. Certainly the Argentines have been made fully aware yet again that we have no doubt about British sovereignty over the islands. The Argentine Foreign Minister agreed that the umbrella formula was working satisfactorily. We know that a lot of comment is made by Argentines in order, if one likes, to keep a mental hold on some of the Falkland Islanders. The islanders should not doubt us and neither should they doubt us in our action to seek to bring about the right kind of fishing protection which protects fishing stocks and will continue to give the Falkland Islanders their due income from the fisheries in the region.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that we have to do something very early in order to reassure the people in the Falklands? Perhaps we might invite President Menem to come here with his Foreign Secretary on a return visit and for him to state here that in seven years' time, by some means or other, he intends that the Falkland Islands be restored to Argentina. That is an extremely serious statement. It may not cause much perturbation to the Government, but it certainly concerns the people of the Falkland Islands very much indeed.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I understand the noble Lord's anxieties. Throughout the time that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spent in Argentina there were no such exchanges as he intimates. In fact, as regards a visit, no 9 representations were made about that either during the Foreign Secretary's visit. Certainly, we have nothing definite in mind. Any visit would need most careful preparation and the timing of it would be all important. Returning to the real anxiety which the noble Lord has—namely, the attitude and anxiety among the Falkland Islanders—Britain is not going to go back on what it has done for those islands. I believe the fact that we have a garrison there is a very good thing. It is one further way —including an improvement in trade which we hope to see—which will help the Falkland Islanders further.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, was it made abundantly clear—

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that we should all welcome the renewed political, cultural and trade contacts which have been established with the Argentine and we hope that they will continue and grow?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I believe that the noble Lord is right. The resumption of relations, which are improving, has proved possible only because the Argentines agreed to talk about practical matters without prejudice to either side's position on sovereignty. Sovereignty is not for negotiation. I cannot underline that too strongly to your Lordships. Both sides confirm that the sovereignty formula remains in force, but any better relations in the world are always welcome.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, was it made abundantly clear to the Argentines that any further attempt to grab the Falkland Islands would be fully resisted, as on the previous occasion, and that the operations to resist it would not necessarily be confined to the vicinity of the islands?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I know of my noble friend's great interest in this matter. The position has not changed. I hope that we shall never have to do again what we had to do in 1982, but should the need arise I am sure that Britain and many other nations will join together and repeat the exercise. But I sincerely hope that it will not be necessary. From what we have heard and from the exchanges which took place, I do not believe that anything of that kind is contemplated by the Argentine Government.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, this is a subject which causes great anxiety in the Falkland Islands. It would be very desirable for the Minister's fairly sturdy reply to be given much more publicity. The islanders are very conscious of the fact that the British Government did not take heed of the warnings on the last occasion. I hope that the Government will reiterate, as the noble Baroness has said, that sovereignty is not for negotiation. At the same time will the noble Baroness urge better co-operation on the fishing side? If she reads the reports I believe that she will agree that the Argentines have not been very co-operative.

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I shall not repeat what I said earlier. I understand the noble 10 Lord's desire that our firm position is well represented in the Falkland Islands. Perhaps the BBC will carry what we have said in your Lordships' House this afternoon which will also help. I understand the noble Lord's anxiety about the fishery regime in the Falkland Islands. I know that in particular he has expressed anxiety about over-fishing in South Georgia. We really are trying, through the fourth fisheries survey which took place just over a year ago, with more accurate estimates of fish stocks and proper discussion, to make sure that the fish stocks are maintained while permitting adequate fishing for income for the islanders and others in the region.

§ Viscount Montgomery of Alamein
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that this was the first visit ever by a Foreign Secretary to Argentina and that as such it has been very widely welcomed? Furthermore, is she aware that since the restoration of diplomatic relations trade has increased rapidly between our two countries and it is now running at an annualised level of over £250 billion bilaterally? Is she further aware that the opportunities for further investment are very great indeed and that that will be of great benefit to both countries in the pursuit of continuing better relations?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, an investment promotion and protection agreement is now in force. We hope shortly to negotiate a double taxation agreement with the Argentine. The Argentine's ambitious privatisation programme offers real opportunities to UK industry. We very much welcome the growth in trade which can only help to bring a growth in understanding.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the plundering of fish stocks by the Argentines around the Falkland waters is not only destroying the livelihood of the Falklanders but is also damaging very greatly the world food supply of squid? Why do not the Government send some armed forces to remove them; that is, if we have any left?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, recent agreement offers the best way of achieving sensible co-operation in protecting the economic interests of the Falkland Islanders. I believe that we should continue with that.

§ Baroness Blackstone
My Lords, I was interested to hear what the Minister said in reply to the noble Lord opposite about an improvement in trade. Can she tell the House precisely what the current balance of trade is with Argentina today?

§ Baroness Chalker of Wallasey
My Lords, I regret that I do not have the figure to hand but I shall write to the noble Baroness.