HL Deb 08 December 1993 vol 550 cc941-2

2.43 p.m.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the reason for the proposed increase in the expenditure of the EC; and whether they propose to agree to it.

The Minister of State, Department of Transport (The Earl of Caithness)

My Lords, the financial framework for the European Community until 1999 was agreed at the Edinburgh European Council of December 1992. The Government will ask Parliament later this Session to approve a Bill giving force to the changes in the Community's system of own resources as agreed at Edinburgh.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. Will he say what is the increase in expenditure next year over the current year?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the 1994 budget will go to the European Parliament to be discussed on Tuesday next week and will probably be voted upon on Thursday. So I cannot give the precise figures, but the Council's second reading of the draft budget came to a total of 73.1 becu, which is £56.1 billion or thereabouts.

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I can supply the figures for which the noble Lord asks? The figures show that when ECOFTN met on 15th November last to consider and approve the draft budget of the Community, it represented an increase of 4.204 billion ecu in terms of payments and 4.264 in terms of commitments. Translated into pounds, that means an increase of over £3 billion over last year. Will the Minister confirm that in the light of those figures the British Minister at the next ECOFTN meeting will resist the proposals for increases which will most surely come from the European Parliament?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the European Parliament will doubtless look at the budget in the way that the European Parliament looks at the budget. I know that the noble Lord will be the first to congratulate the Government on what they achieved at Edinburgh, which was a marked reduction over what the Commission proposed.

Lord Wyatt of Weeford

My Lords, will the noble Earl give the Government's reaction to M. Delors' grandiose scheme for borrowing countless billions in order to clear unemployment in the EC by subsidising clapped out industries?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, we will look at everything that M. Delors puts to us with great care. When it came to the question of the own resources ceiling, he put forward a figure of 1.37 per cent, for 1997. We whittled that down to 1.27 per cent, by 1999. I am sure that we shall be able to look at his proposals in the same constructive mood.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is it not rather late in the day to be talking about these global figures? Does the Minister agree that the problem, if there is one—and indeed there is—is that the formula to which we agreed and upon which the agreement is based brings about these excessive figures. Is there no way of subsidiarity being brought in so that we can have a say, despite what was agreed in Edinburgh, as to the actual amount that we should pay? It seems to increase every time the matter is brought forward.

The Earl of Caithness

Yes, my Lords. There is a provision for an increase in the Community budget. That was what was agreed at Edinburgh. It was entirely due to my right honourable friend the Prime Minister that the increase was limited to the amount that it was.

Lord Peston

My Lords, will the noble Earl confirm that the answer to the question is that the reason is that we agreed to it? The answer to the second part of the Question, whether the Government propose to agree to it, is yes, because they have already agreed to it. In other words, it is all over and done with and we have no scope for any change whatsoever.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, to which question does the noble Lord refer?

Lord Peston

My Lords, I refer to the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter: what is the reason for the proposed increase? Am I right in saying that me answer is that we have already agreed to it, and therefore the second part of the Question, whether the Government propose to agree to it, is a nullity? The answer is yes, because they already have.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, that is why I gave the Answer referring to the Edinburgh Council, because it has been agreed to.