HL Deb 07 December 1993 vol 550 cc815-6

2.55 p.m.

Lord Campbell of Croy asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will ensure that trading standards departments are not so numerous and consequently reduced in size as to impair their effectiveness in the forthcoming reorganisation of local government in England, Scotland and Wales.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Trade and Industry (Lord Strathclyde)

My Lords, in making decisions on local government reorganisation, the Government will take fully into account the need for effectiveness in service provision.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, I am grateful for that welcome reply. While the sizes of the future new units of local government must be governed by other factors, perhaps I may ask whether the option of joint authorities, as already used in the cases of the police and the fire service, is being considered in order to provide effective bodies assisting both traders and consumers?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I very much recognise the point that my noble friend makes. At the moment it is felt that for reasons of local accountability it should be local authorities that operate the services provided by trading standards authorities. But there is nothing to stop local authorities getting together voluntarily, as they do in West Yorkshire, to provide that service on a wider scale.

Lord Jacques

My Lords, will Her Majesty's Government also bear in mind that many of our cities, such as the city of Portsmouth, are well capable of having an adequate trading standards department without the need for a second tier of local government?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, that is very much in tune with what the Government are saying. Certainly, when the local government review looks at Portsmouth it will take the noble Lord's comments into account.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, will the Minister agree that enforcement which is carried out by trading standards officers represents a very great matter of concern in safeguarding consumers? Will he further agree that any proposal for local government reorganisation which does not provide for an effective continuation of that provision would be wrong and, indeed, injurious to the interests of those consumers? Will he therefore look again at this particular point in relation to local government reorganisation?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, of course trading standards officers not only help consumers; they help industry and guide industry on how to deal with consumer affairs problems. It is the Labour Party that is continually keen on local democracy, so I find it strange that the noble Lord seems to be asking for the kind of joint authority scheme run by committees and quangos which his party is so often against.

Lord Clinton-Davis

The Minister should not talk rot about quangos!

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that virtually all the organisations representing trade and industry are worried that this service may become submerged, lost and fragmented by being overlooked in the new reorganisation? Will he therefore, in addition to his encouraging remarks in this House, make sure that his department allays the apprehensions of the CBI and other organisations?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I very recently had a meeting with the professional body that represents trading standards authorities. It was a constructive meeting, at which of course these issues were discussed. I accept what my noble friend said. The DTI is very concerned that the provision of services should be as professional as it has been in the past. To that end we are working with other government departments and the local government review to make sure that that is what happens.

Lord Ezra

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that the trading standards operation is supported by more and more specialist skills and equipment and would be very difficult to manage and operate if it were fragmented? Furthermore, in regard to voluntary arrangements, is he aware that there have been a large number of such arrangements and the only case in which they have survived is that of West Yorkshire, to which he referred—and that the arrangements there are very uncertain? Therefore does he agree that something of a more mandatory nature is necessary?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, it is a sadness that voluntary arrangements have not been more successful. But at least West Yorkshire has been able to manage its affairs in such a way that the voluntary arrangements have been successful. I accept what the noble Lord said about the difficulties of trading standards authorities. Those are precisely the issues that are being discussed.