Legal Aid (Hansard, 21 April 1993)

§ The Lord Chancellor (Lord Mackay of Clashfern)
My Lords, net expenditure on legal aid in 1993–94 is expected to be £1,284 million. Final figures for 1992–93 are not yet available but the total net cost is expected to be slightly more than £1,100 million.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for that interesting Answer. Is he not concerned at the tendency of this heavy load of expenditure to increase at a time when Her Majesty's Government are struggling in other areas, such as defence, to restrict expenditure? Can he say whether any further action is intended to secure that there will be a real reduction in expenditure this year?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, naturally I am concerned about the total of public expenditure, in particular about the part of it that is the legal aid budget. I have taken steps which in my view have the effect of controlling the rate of rise of the legal aid budget while still producing an increase in the total net cost. I believe that these arrangements are reasonable in all the circumstances.

Lord Morris
My Lords, has an analysis been commissioned as to why there has been such an alarming increase in legal aid? Is it because we have become a more litigious people or a more criminal people, or is it because the expense of providing legal services has risen so greatly?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, there have been increases in the number of acts of assistance offered under the legal aid scheme. That is one aspect of the increase. Another aspect is the unit cost. The unit cost has, generally speaking, gone up faster than inflation. Those two aspects have to be taken into account. The Legal Aid Board commissioned some research into the reasons for the growth in legal aid in magistrates' courts. It is very difficult to come to firm conclusions about these matters. So far as I am concerned, what I receive essentially are the bills from those who provide the services.

§ Lord Mackie of Benshie
My Lords, can the noble and learned Lord help the House and perhaps even shed some light on the problem by telling us why in Scotland civil legal aid per case costs £800 and in England it costs £1,600? Can he tell us why that is so?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, it might be unwise for me to speculate unduly on this matter. It is a question of the total circumstances in which the legal aid is granted, the nature of the legal remedies available and, apart from anything else, the overheads that the profession has to bear. These matters are considered separately in Scotland and in England and Wales. My primary responsibility at present is in respect of England and Wales.

§ Lord Ennals
My Lords, would it not have been appropriate for the noble and learned Lord to have said in his Answer that there are now more poor people who simply cannot afford to get justice in a very unjust society? Is that not one of the factors?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I said that more people are receiving legal aid than before. There has been a growth in the number of those receiving legal aid. But I also pointed out that the unit cost is increasing. The noble Lord will not expect me to agree with his general observations on the state of justice in our society.

§ Lord Gisborough
My Lords, is it not right that the chief reason for this increase is simply the increase in crime and that therefore money spent in reducing crime would reduce the cost of legal aid?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, the less crime there is, the better for all of us. No doubt that would have an effect on the legal aid budget. The budget for crime prevention is important and, where it is effective, it can help to contain the legal aid budget.

§ Lord Richard
My Lords, the Lord Chancellor will know better than most, if I may say so, that there is to be a judicial review of this matter. Will the noble and learned Lord consider suspending the proposed regulations until after that judicial review has taken place? Otherwise, irreparable damage may well be done to those people who have emergency applications for legal aid which they will not now be in a position to have granted.

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, naturally, I am in a very good position to know that leave to move for judicial review has been granted in respect of the eligibility changes which I have proposed in regulations laid before Parliament. I have considered the question which the noble Lord has raised, but I have concluded that it is not appropriate for me to seek to amend those regulations. Apart from anything else, the total budget available to me is, as I have said, set for this year. If the regulations were suspended for any length of time I should have to find some greater savings as regards the rest of the year than are likely to ensue from the effect of these regulations. Therefore, in the light of all the circumstances, I am likely to make the position worse rather than better if I accede to that suggestion.

§ Lord Harmar-Nicholls
My Lords, is my noble and learned friend aware that, although this Question concerns legal costs, people who have been running 1557 small businesses for a number of years find that all professional charges, including those of the banks, are reaching a point where the pain is unbearable?

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, I well understand that various costs are rising. To some extent, of course, those who invite the services have to consider what they can afford and possibly seek competitive offers from those who provide the services.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, arising from that question, can the noble and learned Lord say whether there is any information about the increase in incomes in the legal profession compared with increases in comparable professions? Are those figures available? If they are, I believe that they would be of considerable interest.

§ The Lord Chancellor
My Lords, some figures are available, but they are not very good overall figures. For example, figures are made available by the Top Salaries Review Body in relation to its consideration of judicial salaries. That is a sample, as it were. I am not aware of very reliable overall figures for the legal profession as a whole.