HL Deb 28 October 1992 vol 539 cc1115-7

3.8 p.m.

Baroness Sharples asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they propose to relax food and safety regulations in respect of home-made food on sale at charitable events.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Baroness Cumberlege)

My Lords, I share my noble friend's concern that food safety regulations can be inappropriately applied without proper regard to the degree of potential risk to the consumer. The Government are considering what might be done through changing regulations and in the advice given to environmental health officers.

Baroness Sharples

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. But is she aware that certain environmental health officers have been over-zealous in their approach to inspections and that in one case an uncertain officer insisted that cold and hot water should be installed in an open market?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, the Food Safety Act 1990 has been described to me as a haven for little Hitlers. I cannot actually agree with that, but there have been occasions when the environmental health officers, I do believe, have been over-zealous in their enforcement.

Lord Parry

My Lords, does the noble Baroness accept that there is some reassurance in her reply? Does she agree with me that there is absolutely nothing that the bureaucrats of Brussels can teach to the ladies of the British Women's Institutes about home economics and hygiene and that the sooner they are told not to interfere in those matters the better it will be?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, as one whose strawberry jam is second to none, I concur with that.

Lord Boardman

My Lords, can my noble friend say whether the regulations affecting home-made foods are also home made or whether they come from Europe?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, there are two aspects to this. There is the Food Hygiene General Regulations 1970 and there are also regulations coming from the EC. I should tell your Lordships that when I am asked to consider a change in regulations I ask two questions. Where are the bodies—that is, show me the evidence that a change is necessary? Secondly, what is the effect of that proposal on the industry or business concerned in terms of its continuing viability?

Lord Carter

My Lords, while we are all concerned about the safety of the national supply of jam and chutney from bazaars and church fetes, is the Minister aware that my neighbour in Wiltshire who delivers meals on wheels and who has no involvement in food handling or preparation was required to attend a four-and-a-half hour seminar on food safety, with five speakers from the local authority? The seminar was entitled "Eat Up, It is Perfectly Safe". The first lecture was "How To Poison Your Clients". Has this not all gone a bit too far?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, the noble Lord is right. I think we are over-egging the pudding.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that while this question relates to the safety of food, all legislators should remember that in the end legislation depends upon the common sense and discretion of those who have to administer it? When we are passing legislation we should keep that in mind.

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. Of course that is what we are trying to do now.

Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe

My Lords, the House should congratulate the—

Lord Bruce of Donington

My Lords, while I do not suggest that the Government should go as far as the French Government in disobeying regulations whenever it suits them, will the noble Baroness cause to be transmitted a message to Brussels on this particular point and tell them to get stuffed?

Baroness Cumberlege

My Lords, I would not be as presumptuous as that. I am sure that there is an answer here about sage and onion but I am not going to go into it.

Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe

My Lords, the House should congratulate the noble Baroness on her replies because this is the first chink of light that I have seen in this Chamber for some time about beating back those busybodies from Brussels.