Training and Enterprise Councils (Hansard, 14 May 1992)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, the Government are continually working with TECs to improve their effectiveness across a wide range of areas. This work is being done both with individual TECs and through the group of 10 TEC chairmen.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that the Government are not meeting their guarantee of providing a training place for all those under the age of 18? In that connection will he give the total budget for TECs last year and this year? In addition, what is being done about the complaint made as recently as yesterday in a letter written on behalf of all the chairmen of the 82 TECs to the Secretary of State saying that their work is being seriously hampered by bureaucracy?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, no, I will not confirm what the noble Lord stated. The YT guarantee is being fulfilled. The noble Lord asked about the budget. This year's £851 million budget for 450 YT and credits is higher than previously published plans and more than was spent last year. That is on the understanding that there are fewer young people coming out of TECs and more going into further education.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the unemployment figures published today show an increase of 42,600 and that the total number is now more than 2,700,000, emphasising the increasing need for the TECs? Does the Minister dispute that the business leaders of the TECs have informed the department that the structure of the 82 TECs is on knife edge because of too much government interference and that the TECs will die unless there is a major reform? What is the answer to that charge and is not what the leaders of business have said true?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, of course I regret the further increase in unemployment. However, the TECs exist to deal with only a part of the range of facilities that the Government have available to help those who are unemployed. They deliver employment training and employment action, which they are doing extraordinarily well. I do not believe that the TECs are on a knife edge. The contracts are all but signed with every TEC and there is satisfaction in that.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, is the Minister aware that there has been strong criticism of the Government because there appears to be a lack of resources to provide for the investment in people scheme, which has the support of the CBI? What is being done to assist TECs in that direction?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the important point is that the resources allocated to the TECs look after not only youth and employment training but the most important part, the block 3. That will assist the TECs to assess what is required in their locality and to provide money for them to develop the opportunities which exist for training, including investment in people, and they are doing so most successfully.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, is the noble Viscount able to say categorically that there will be no further cuts in the money available for training through the TECs? We are constantly hearing rumours, or even statements, that the amount of money is being reduced and there is a fear that it will be reduced even further.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I think it would be wrong for any Minister to stand at the Dispatch Box and say that there will not be any further cuts or increases. Every government department must look at its spending on a year-by-year basis depending on what is required in the nature of training and the level of unemployment from year to year.

The Earl of Stockton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the 820 businessmen who represent the business sector on the boards of the training and enterprise councils have been, for the greater part, involved with the Government for an average of only 18 months? Could it be that this is their first brush 451 with bureaucracy and that their view has been coloured somewhat by the complexities of dealing with various Whitehall departments?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, my noble friend Lord Stockton raises an extremely important point. I believe that 1,200 high-level businessmen are involved in the TEC movement. Having secured their services, it is only natural that they should look very closely at the contracts and negotiate very hard. If the negotiations only took five minutes, probably we should not have the right people.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does the noble Viscount agree that it is essential that we get our education and training system right, bearing in mind that it is still inferior to that of our foreign competitors? Will he agree also that often the training offered to young people is not satisfactory to them in that they believe that they are being undervalued and, indeed, in many cases underpaid?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I believe that the present success of the TECs is demonstrated by the strong local partnerships being developed between business, education and a wide range of other groups. I am thinking in particular of the education business partnerships and compacts. It is extremely important that business should be able to offer support for curriculum enhancement by providing resources and should also accept quality placements for pupils and teachers. It is very important that there should be that two-way traffic.
I have met many young people who have been extremely pleased with what they received from YT. I do not believe it right that the YT programme has the reputation which the noble Lord imports to it.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, will the Minister explain the contribution made by the trade unions to the working of those councils?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the councils are led by employers. It is on that basis that I believe that they are extraordinarily successful. I am sorry to say that when they were first announced, they were not well received by the trade unions.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that the "enterprise" part of the training and enterprise councils' work is almost non-existent? That is an extremely important part of the work. What are the Government doing to encourage greater results and greater activity in that part of the work?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving me this opportunity to say how much I appreciate that enterprise is very important. Part of it is delivering government programmes; that is, ET and YT. However, as I said in an earlier answer, just as important is the block 3 money which helps to pay for business start-ups and management training for owner managers. That is extremely important and that is being done.
Indeed, in the noble Lord's area, the business 452 advice centres have been set up across the county to help support local businesses, the objective being to create a single point of entry for access, advice, training and financial support. That is being done by the County Durham TEC.