El Alamein: Commemoration (Hansard, 11 May 1992)

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, we shall be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the battle of E1 Alamein in Egypt at a Commonwealth ceremony and at an international ceremony to be held jointly with Germany and Italy.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Viscount on his appointment and thank him for his reply. Does he agree that in many lands the battle of El Alamein is looked on as the first great victory over a most formidable evil foe? The men who participated in that important battle are now reaching their seventies. All battles are remarkable and must be duly remembered, but the 50th anniversary of E1 Alamein will be a great celebration for those who take part and for those who gained from that victory. Does he agree that it would be right to acknowledge that it was the first great blow struck against an evil enemy by the British and Commonwealth forces?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, E1 Alamein was a great victory and a turning point in the war. As Churchill later wrote: "Up to Alamein we survived; after Alamein we conquered". We are very conscious of the debt of honour that the nation owes to those from so many allied countries who fought and died there. We believe that the arrangements which have been made will mark the 50th anniversary in a truly fitting way.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, my noble friend is to be congratulated on his appointment, which I am sure is welcomed throughout the House. Is he aware that for the very reason given—namely, that those 143 who took part in the battle of El Alamein are now of some age—it may be extremely difficult for them to attend a ceremony in Egypt? Does he feel that it would be as well to have in addition a service in St. Paul's?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, in praising the achievements of those who fought at E1 Alamein, we must not forget those who sacrificed their life elsewhere in the world on land, at sea and in the air on active service or as prisoners not only in 1942 but throughout the war. The Government believe that the present pattern of national commemoration coupled with local services of remembrance is wholly appropriate.

§ Lord Wyatt of Weeford
My Lords, does the noble Viscount feel that it would be a good idea to show our appreciation to the survivors of that remarkable battle by having a commemorative stamp? Commemorative stamps have been issued for many lesser affairs and people than the victors of El Alamein.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I shall ask my noble friend the Secretary of State for Defence to comment upon that suggestion.

§ Lord Bonham-Carter
My Lords, did the noble Viscount say that the battle of E1 Alamein was to be celebrated not only by this country and our former allies but by Germany and Italy? If so, will he tell us what part Germany and Italy are taking in celebrating a notable defeat?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, in recent years it has been the Government's policy that those acts of remembrance should also be acts of reconciliation. We hold these commemorative services jointly with Italy and Germany.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, I am sure that the noble Viscount is right in the terms of his last answer. However, does he consider that that policy will prevail with regard to the service at the Cenotaph on the Sunday close to 11th November? That would seem logical.
As one who was at Alamein, perhaps I may say that many would like to attend the ceremony. They have no knowledge of the ceremony, how they could participate or which organisations they might approach. If the Government could be more helpful in that respect I believe that a large number of people —not only from the United Kingdom but from Australia, India, New Zealand, Poland and Czechoslovakia who participated in the battle—might wish to attend that ceremony. If we could have some knowledge—some circulation as to the arrangements —about how members of that force may celebrate that battle, it would be helpful.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the Royal British Legion holds annual ceremonies. We also have the ceremonies at the Cenotaph. In view of what I have said about a great number of battles whose 50th anniversary we shall be commemorating, I believe that the current arrangements are totally appropriate.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, perhaps I may add my welcome to the noble Viscount on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box and wish him well in answering Questions for the Ministry of Defence. He seems to have landed himself with something of a hot potato today.
Does he recognise that there are strong feelings on this matter in particular from those who participated in the battle? I follow the question of my noble friend Lord Shepherd. Will the noble Viscount help the House by describing in a little more detail the ceremonies that will take place in Egypt at the 50th anniversary of E1 Alamein? Who will be present? Will there be ministerial representation from the Government? Will the regiments who fought in the battle be represented? What will happen? Who will lead the ceremony?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, the management of the battlefield ceremonies rotates between ourselves, the Germans and the Italians. It falls to the Germans to lead this year's ceremonies.

Noble Lords
Oh!

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I understand that the Prime Minister hopes to attend the ceremonies.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, will the noble Viscount be good enough to explain how a defeated people can celebrate a battle? Does he accept that it is very important that our young people should remember these great battles and that we never have a repeat of a terrible event such as the Second World War because we have very conveniently forgotten it?

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I ask the noble Baroness not to confuse celebration with commemoration. The current policy is towards reconciliation with former enemies. We now talk in terms of commemoration rather than celebration.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, perhaps I may congratulate my noble and Strange kinsman on his first appearance at the Dispatch Box. I ask that the War Widows Association of Great Britain be included in any commemoration that there will be.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I note my noble friend's comment.

§ Lord Molloy
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that all areas of the Royal British Legion, including the great metropolitan area of which I am proud to be president, acknowledge totally what he said about the contributions made by all troops, in particular British troops, in other events in the last war? However, the Americans, the Australians and the British all acknowledge that the great turning point was that magnificent victory at El Alamein. Many of the victories that followed would not have occurred had it not been for that great victory at E1 Alamein. I beg the Minister to ask the Government that there be some celebration, preferably at the Royal Albert Hall, at which this tremendous event can receive the thanks of a very grateful nation and of many other parts of the world which love freedom and democracy.

Viscount St. Davids
My Lords, I can only repeat again that, although El Alamein was in itself a remarkable battle, I believe that the Government will consider it invidious to choose its commemoration over and above those events that followed and those that preceded it.