IAEA: Strengthening of Powers (Hansard, 3 March 1992)

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the Government are not aware of any specific German proposal. However, we fully support the proposals made by the Presidency on behalf of the European Community member states at the meeting last September of the Board of Governors of the agency.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that Answer. Is he aware that the present staff of the International Atomic Energy Agency is only 200? I believe that foreign Minister Genscher has given his weight to the view that unless it is increased to 2,000 it will be impossible for the agency to carry out the task of making sure that nuclear non-proliferation works. Is the Minister not aware that if one wills a specific aim one must will the means towards it or it will not be achieved?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the Government are working with partners to strengthen the IAEA safeguards regime to ensure that the shortcomings revealed by the Iraqi evasions are remedied. There is much work to be done. I am aware of the suggestion that the manpower of the agency be increased. We do not believe that an increase of this magnitude is necessary. The needs of the safeguards system will naturally occupy a central part of the discussions in the agency's forthcoming budget.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, may I press the noble Lord a little further on this point? It is not only a question of an increase in manpower, but also of having the necessary authority. I am doubtful—and perhaps the noble Lord will confirm what is the Government's view—whether under its present constitution the authority has the power to carry out the investigations which it needs to execute to make sure that atomic energy is not being converted into atomic bombs.

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, makes a very interesting point. The authority of the agency is being inspected. I can tell the noble Lord that at the moment the belief is that it has the necessary authority, alongside the United Nations, to do the job that it is meant to do.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, how can the agency do the job properly when it had a 13 per cent. cut in its budget last year? Will the Government answer that question? Will the Minister also be kind enough to answer the question concerning the mandatory reporting of imports and exports of nuclear materials which I understand was a proposal before the meeting of the agency which has been 750 deferred until June? What is the Government's view of that proposal? Do the Government support it and will they also support it at the June meeting?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, as regards the second question, I do not believe that I am in a position to know at what stage those negotiations are or what view we take at the moment. Much work is going on. In relation to funding, the needs of the agency are being closely discussed and watched at the moment. We have to establish those needs before we can properly understand the necessary budget.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, does the noble Lord agree that the questions asked by the two noble Lords are extremely valid? It is very important that powers are strengthened in order to make sure that people are not using atomic energy for military purposes. Does the Minister also agree that the powers of the agency derive from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and not from the charter of the agency itself? Does the Minister further agree that it is the non-proliferation treaty that requires strengthening? Will the Government undertake to try to bring that about at the next review of the treaty?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I accept the importance of these matters. Our view is that the treaty is working rather well and that more and more people are coming into it. It is the source of the strength of the agency. A great number of proposals are being worked on. We have made a number of proposals, including special inspections which allow locations in addition to declared sites to be visited. They are a key feature. The agency has the right to conduct special inspections on sites with comprehensive safeguard agreements. That was confirmed at the meeting of the board of governors last week. There are other proposals including the requirement for the notification of new nuclear facilities before construction, a declaration of the domestic production of uranium ore concentrate, and the reporting to the agency of exports of other nuclear equipment. I understand that the requirement for notification of new facilities was accepted and that other proposals are subject to further discussion.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, can the noble Lord say whether all our atomic facilities are available for inspection by the International Atomic Energy Authority?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the safeguards do not apply to the military cycle. All civil nuclear material in the United Kingdom is subject to the EURATOM safeguards and to the terms of the UK/IAEA/EURATOM safeguards agreement.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, does that include weapons-grade plutonium held at power stations?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, yes, I believe that it does.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, will the noble Lord hear in mind that the inspectorate might be a very good place to use the skills of the former Soviet nuclear 751 scientists, bearing in mind that America is said to be finding money to employ these people simply to stop them disappearing into the third world?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, if the noble Lord is talking about the brain drain, that is clearly a potential cause for serious concern. We are looking at a number of ways to prevent the proliferation of expertise. We fully support the initiative to establish a scientific centre in CIS to provide peaceful employment for former Soviet scientists. The initiative accords with ideas of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister put to Mr. Yeltsin in January. The United Kingdom contribution is still under consideration. We shall be playing a full part in the discussions.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, when the noble Lord says that the Government are satisfied with the way in which the non-proliferation treaty is working and with the powers behind the authority, have they looked at the history of this matter? For example, can the noble Lord tell us how many and which countries have a nuclear facility and to what extent that is being used to make nuclear weapons? Does the answer that the noble Lord gave to my noble friend Lord Williams that apparently the Government are quite happy that the budget should be reduced by 13 per cent. not rather smack of complacency?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, misheard me if he believes that I said that I was happy with the situation. I said that we would examine the needs of the agency. As regards the other questions which the noble Lord asked about the non-proliferation treaty, I believe that we are getting rather a long way from the German proposal which is referred to on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, having regard to the unusual degree of unanimity that there is on this matter, in referring it to his right honourable friend, will the noble Lord emphasise the need for some degree of energy and emergency because the matter is not one which can be left unattended?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, I wish to emphasise the enormous importance which Her Majesty's Government attach to this area.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, in case there should be any misunderstanding of a very important matter, will the noble Lord make two things clear? The first is this: will the noble Lord confirm that the IAEA safeguards are only applicable to those non-nuclear powers which have signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? Secondly, will the noble Lord also make it clear that no safeguards under the non-proliferation treaty are required to be placed in nuclear powers?

§ Lord Cavendish of Furness
My Lords, the noble Lord is correct on both those points.