HL Deb 15 June 1992 vol 538 cc4-6

2.47 p.m.

Lord Merrivale asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they will encourage the return to Gibraltar of J. S. Copley's painting "The Siege and Relief of Gibraltar: 13th September 1782", previously on loan to the Convent (the Governor's residence) from the Tate Gallery.

Viscount Astor

My Lords, the decision on this matter is for the trustees of the Tate Gallery. I have discussed this with the Tate and I believe that a suitable agreement for the return of the painting can be reached.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that hopeful Answer. I believe that the Tate Gallery may be willing to return the painting to Gibraltar if somebody else foots the bill. If that is the case, is the Minister prepared to discuss with, for example, the Wolfson Foundation and the Family Charitable Trust, which are involved in the Museums and Galleries Improvement Fund, the possibility of meeting the cost on a 50–50 basis with the Government?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, it is important that the trustees of the Tate Gallery are prepared to lend the picture back to the museum in Gibraltar. It is for the Gibraltar museum to raise the money to get it back there. I am sure that any suggestions for helping to raise that money will be very welcome. I shall pass on the noble Lord's suggestion.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, does my noble friend recall that the picture adorned the dining room at the Convent for many years and that it was appropriately placed there? Does he agree that it is quite ridiculous for it to go hack to the Tate where there are already thousands of pictures in store?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely correct. It was in Gibraltar for 20 years. However, it was necessary for the picture to be returned to this country for cleaning. That conservation work will be done by the end of August.

Lord Morris of Castle Morris

My Lords, can the noble Viscount give any idea of how much the movement of the picture will cost? I should have thought that it would not be very considerable. If it is considerable, can he say why?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, I understand that the cost of returning the picture to Gibraltar could amount to between £5,000 and £6,000. That is because of freight charges and the need to send someone from the Tate Gallery to oversee the unpacking and hanging of the picture.

Lord Aberdare

My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that Mr. J. S. Copley was my great-greatgrandfather? So long as I am not asked for any money, I fully support the proposal.

Viscount Astor

My Lords, I am sure we are all delighted to hear that information. Noble Lords will remember that the siege of Gibraltar was lifted by Lord Howe in 1782. No doubt his descendant, my noble friend, will be able to conduct his Bill this afternoon in the same exemplary fashion.

Baroness Birk

My Lords, I have to go back, alas, to the general rather than the personal aspect of the matter. Is it not true that the Tate Gallery wishes this picture and others which are on loan to be shown only in museums where they are treated with great care and are accessible to people? I understand that the cost is £5,365, which includes the fees of the courier whom the Tate insists would have to accompany the painting. Is it true that the cost will be paid by the borrower and not by the Tate Gallery?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, it is normal policy for the borrower to pay the cost of receiving a picture from the Tate Gallery or indeed many other institutions. The noble Baroness is right. The picture will be on public display in Gibraltar.

Lord Merrivale

My Lords, the noble Viscount referred to a figure of £5,000. Why should it be so expensive to return this painting to Gibraltar when it was Mr. Roy Perry, Deputy Keeper—Conservation, who brought the painting back in November 1990? I am sure that that could not have been the cost,

Viscount Astor

My Lords, that is a matter for the Tate Gallery trustees. It is for them to specify how the painting should be returned to Gibraltar.

Lord Rodney

My Lords, I do not wish to become involved in one-upmanship but the relief of the previous siege was brought about by my ancestor. I was very disappointed when visiting Gibraltar recently to find only one rather dreary print of my ancestor in the museum. Can the Tate Gallery or someone lend it something a little better?

Viscount Astor

My Lords, before I am swamped by noble Lords whose ancestors took part in the relief of Gibraltar, I shall bring my noble friend's remarks to the attention of the Tate Gallery to see whether it has any other pictures of noble Lords' ancestors suitable for Gibraltar.