HL Deb 09 June 1992 vol 537 cc1190-2

2.53 p.m.

Lord Rea asked Her Majesty's Government:

What progress has been made at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development at Rio (the "Earth Summit") especially regarding the conventions on climate change and biodiversity and the statement on the principles of forest management.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Strathclyde)

My Lords, the conventions on climate change and on biological diversity were opened for signature on 4th and 5th June 1992 respectively at the Earth Summit in Rio. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister will sign the climate change convention later this week and hopes also to be able to sign the biodiversity convention. We hope to agree a statement of principles for sustainable management of all types of forest as a basis for negotiations on a legally binding framework convention.

Lord Rea

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that full reply. We shall look forward to receiving a full report from the noble Baroness, Lady Chalker, when she returns. While some of us will have appreciated her criticism of the Pope's rather dogmatic views on family planning, is that not something of a deviation from the central issue: the transfer of technology from the North to the South? Are the Government fully aware that to carry out even the relatively watered down items decided at the UN conference, UNCED, will require investment, and that market forces alone as suggested by Michael Howard, the Secretary of State for the Environment, on Sunday will not provide the resources required in either the quality or the quantity needed?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I believe the noble Lord has grossly misunderstood the Government's position on this matter. We believe in providing new and additional resources to help developing countries; but we also consider that there is a great requirement for increased trade and investment. That will be provided by the private sector.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the Minister tell the House what the Government's attitude is to Agenda 21 and in particular to the part of that agenda which requires signatories to aim at a target of 0.7 per cent. of GNP to finance the third world's efforts to develop a technology which does not pollute?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, we have discussed this matter time and time again. The noble Lord knows that we agree with the target of 0.7 per cent. of GNP as an aid target. However, future levels of aid will depend on our economic circumstances and on other calls on public expenditure. I have no problems with that statement as we have already shown our willingness to secure the success of the conference by providing £40 million to the global environment facility.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the Minister repeat what he said? As I understand the position, the target of 0.7 per cent. is a part of Agenda 21. The British delegation has so far refused to accept that target. Is the noble Lord now saying that is a target? If so, I am afraid he is contradicting the Members of the Government who are now opposing that in Rio despite the fact that countries such as France, Italy and the Netherlands have all agreed that target.

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, the noble Lord is unfortunately confused on this matter. This Government argue that the resources for Agenda 21 must come from resetting national spending priorities and from mainstream aid.

Baroness Phillips

My Lords, I hope I may ask a humble question. So that we may be seen to be making a small contribution to environmental matters, will the staff of this House revert to their former pattern of providing us with recycled envelopes rather than the massive cellophane wrappers that now deluge us?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I am sure that point will be considered by the House authorities.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, are Her Majesty's Government satisfied that this kind of conference is the best way forward? It seems to many people that a great deal of heat has been generated, and indeed to some degree a great deal of hate has been generated. That would be most unfortunate as regards the objectives that we all share and wish to see attained.

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, the noble Lord is correct when he says that much heat has been generated by the conference and expectations have been raised. The view of this Government has always been that the Earth Summit is the beginning of a process and not the end. It is on that basis that we hope to sign the conventions.

Lord Judd

My Lords, I believe there is a little confusion here. Some of us were greatly encouraged to read in the press today that the noble Baroness, Lady Chalker, is very much in favour of allocating increased resources to the third world in order to help with environmental management. Does the Minister accept that this House will give her full support in that endeavour? As regards the conventions, will the Minister confirm that the Prime Minister's signature will be unconditional? Will the Minister also assure us that pressure has been brought to bear on the United States to sign the climate convention in view of the fact that 25 per cent. of the carbon dioxide which is causing global warming comes from the United States?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I can confirm that we shall sign the climate change convention. That has already been announced. We are still in a position where we hope to be able to sign the biodiversity convention. I accept that the whole House supports the views of my noble friend Lady Chalker as regards transferring greater resources to help underdeveloped countries. In my reply to the noble Lord, Lord Hatch, I explained how much money we were giving for that purpose.

Lord Rea

My Lords, does the noble Lord not agree that if the sums released by the ending of the Cold War, known as the peace dividend, were invested and technology transferred to the South—and the Overseas Development Administration knows how to do that effectively—we should be on the way to solving the problem and at the same time to achieving the 0.7 per cent. of our national income, which is the United Nations recommendation?

Lord Strathclyde

My Lords, I do not think that the Cold War or the peace dividend have anything to do with the noble Lord's original Question.