§ 2.50 p.m.
§ Lord Mayhew asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they support the renewal of the non-proliferation treaty in 1995; and whether they propose meanwhile to increase Britain's overall nuclear weapons capability.
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the United Kingdom will support an indefinite extension of the treaty on the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons in 1995. It remains our policy to maintain the minimum nuclear capability necessary to ensure effective deterrence.
§ Lord MayhewMy Lords, I welcome that Answer, particularly the first part. Does the noble Baroness agree that while rightly getting rid of some comparatively small and obsolete nuclear weapons the Government propose to increase Britain's strategic deterrent? They also propose to acquire a new sub-strategic nuclear weapons system. Is the Minister aware that that is incompatible with the non-proliferation treaty and would greatly weaken our negotiations for a new treaty?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the UK is committed to maintaining a credible sub-strategic nuclear capability to provide the essential link between our conventional and our strategic forces. Without this link there would be a risk that a potential aggressor might gamble on our reluctance to resort to a strategic nuclear response and might think it safe to commit aggression. Global security would therefore not be enhanced by introducing a ban on this category of weapons.
I presume that the noble Lord was referring to Trident when he mentioned a new weapon. The replacement from the mid-1990s of Polaris with Trident is essential for the UK to maintain an effective and credible minimum nuclear deterrent into the next century.
§ Lord Jenkins of PutneyMy Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that the vertical proliferation by existing nuclear states is just as harmful to the possible spread of the treaty as is the horizontal spread a threat to the whole world? Under those circumstances, will the Government look again at the question of Trident? Will the noble Baroness say whether the Government appreciate that the renewal of the non-proliferation treaty, to which we all look forward as a means of removing or at least reducing the nuclear threat, is seriously threatened if the Government continue on their present line?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, as I said, Trident will simply replace Polaris as the UK's minimum nuclear deterrent. There is nothing in the NPT to prevent a nuclear weapon state from maintaining the credibility and effectiveness of its minimum deterrent forces in that way.
§ Lord Boyd-CarpenterMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that twice in the lifetime of many of us the 1100 power of this country to survive against aggression has ultimately produced the freedom of the world? Will she therefore be quite firm in maintaining Trident or whatever other effective nuclear deterrent the country requires for that purpose?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I agree with what my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter said. I repeat, as I shall probably repeat indefinitely, that only the minimum capability is kept by this country to maintain our security.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, will the noble Baroness give the House the assurance that the use or otherwise of Britain's nuclear deterrent will never be put under the control of the institutions of the Treaty of Rome? Will she also give an assurance that under no circumstances, in any arrangement outside the Treaty of Rome, will the Government allow majority voting to take place on the use or otherwise of any such weapon?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, we have two obligations. One is to defend our country ourselves and the other is towards NATO.
§ Lord Cledwyn of PenrhosMy Lords, on a related point, is the noble Baroness aware that many people in the country believe that the time has come for us to move from a partial test ban treaty to a comprehensive test ban treaty? Can she say what the Government's view is about that?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, the United Kingdom is committed to the comprehensive nuclear test ban. It remains a long-term objective. We continue active participation in the discussion of test ban issues in the conference on disarmament in Geneva. But progress can only be made on a step-by-step basis, taking account of a number of factors, including further progress on arms control.
§ Lord MayhewMy Lords, when we enter the negotiations to renew the non-proliferation treaty, will the Government's position be that Britain may increase her nuclear capability but that no other country may do so?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I repeat once again that we wish to have the minimum deterrent necessary for our security.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, will the noble Baroness say whether her answer to me was "yes" or "no"?
§ Baroness TrumpingtonMy Lords, I cannot remember!