HL Deb 01 June 1992 vol 537 cc705-6

2.43 p.m.

Lord Jenkins of Putney asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, as in the gracious Speech they have pledged themselves to work for a comprehensive and verifiable ban on chemical weapons, they will also work for a similar ban on nuclear weapons.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, we and our NATO allies have agreed that nuclear weapons will continue to fulfil an essential role in protecting our security for the foreseeable future.

Lord. Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, it is always a pleasure to be answered by the noble Baroness, Lady Trumpington. Does she agree that, while the Government may be taking a lead on chemical weapons, they are dragging their feet badly on nuclear weapons? Why, for example, do they not emulate some of their European allies in pressing for a comprehensive test-ban treaty?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. I lift up mine eyes unto the hills from whence cometh all help — sometimes it comes and sometimes it does not.

The United Kingdom is committed to a comprehensive nuclear test ban. It remains a long-term objective. We continued our active participation in discussions on test-ban issues at the conference in Geneva on disarmament but progress can be made only on a step-by-step basis, taking account of a number of factors, including further progress on arms control.

Lord Chalfont

My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that so long as this country has a nuclear deterrent the Government will think very hard before signing a comprehensive test ban, if only because no responsible government would base their national security on a weapons systems that had not been properly tested?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. The United Kingdom's nuclear weapons assigned to NATO pose no threat of harm to anyone. They exist for solely defensive and deterrent purposes. NATO has undertaken never to be the first to use military force against another country.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, can the noble Baroness confirm that the French Government have announced a 12-month moratorium on nuclear tests? What is the reaction of Her Majesty's Government to that?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, the United Kingdom has a continuing requirement to sustain a minimum programme of underground nuclear tests to maintain the safety and effectiveness of our nuclear deterrent. The French and Russian suspensions are for one year. Their nuclear testing requirements are for them to judge. The United Kingdom's test programme in Nevada is already minimal, with less than one test per year, and poses no threat to the environment or public health.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, we all want to see the abolition of nuclear and chemical weapons, but does not the noble Baroness agree that that must be achieved in a thorough manner if we are to avoid the most terrible and dangerous situation of all, which would be to leave one nation with both nuclear and other serious weapons while the rest had disarmed?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am not quite sure whether the noble Lord asked me a question. I think that he made a tiny statement, which I should think is probably quite agreeable to me.

Lord Hatch of Lusby

My Lords, will the noble Baroness answer the question which my noble friend asked her? Why do the British Government resist suspending testing in Nevada when the French and the Russians have both declared a moratorium for 12 months? Should we not join them in that process towards disarmament?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, if the noble Lord cares to look in Hansard tomorrow he will see that I have just given him a correct answer to a question that has been asked a second time.

Lord Jenkins of Putney

My Lords, is not the noble Baroness aware that this Government are definitely among the last of the powers to begin to see that nuclear weapons are undesirable and unnecessary? On the point about test bans, are the Government refusing to move in that direction because of Trident? Is that the reason? Is Trident the commanding issue? If so, why not defer Trident at least for 12 months so that we can follow the example of Russia and France?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I do not believe that the two parts of the noble Lord's question are identical. I have already answered the point about the French and Russian test suspensions. We need Trident submarines because from the mid-1990s they will replace Polaris, our existing strategic nuclear deterrent. That is essential if the United Kingdom is to maintain an effective and credible minimum nuclear deterrent into the next century.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that the one recipe for a worldwide disaster would be for a potential aggressor to possess one of these weapons, which are quite easily made, and for the peace-loving nations not to have one as a deterrent?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I agree with my noble and learned friend.