HL Deb 28 January 1992 vol 534 cc1166-8

2.50 p.m.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

asked Her Majesty's Government:

What cutbacks in funding to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive are planned as a result of the costs of increased security and compensation for damage.

The Paymaster General (Lord Belstead)

My Lords, in the 1991–92 financial year the funding of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive has been reduced by £430,000 by a moratorium on the release of new contracts. The need for this has arisen because of new expenditure requirements in a number of areas, including education and health, and not solely or mainly because of security costs, although that has been one factor.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that full reply on a very difficult matter. Of course, he will be aware that his right honourable friend the Secretary of State has said—and, indeed, the noble Lord just repeated it—that one of the major reasons for housing cutbacks is connected with the cost of damage. However, is he also aware that among the contracts that have been put on ice as a result of the moratorium are 22 contracts for the construction of new homes, 42 contracts for the modernisation of homes and a further group of contracts for the maintenance of homes? Although I understand the financial stringency, does the Minister agree that it would be a great pity if the terrorists were to achieve through the demoralisation which results from these cutbacks the very effects that they have not achieved through violence?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I do not disagree with what the noble Lord, Lord Holme of Cheltenham, said at the conclusion of his remarks. However, I must repeat that the moratorium was necessary because of expenditure running towards the ceiling of the Northern Ireland block covering different areas of government expenditure in the Province. That included expenditure on security. Without wishing to sound in any way complacent, I must say that the pause on starting new contracts will have an impact on the executive's programmes in that there will be a delay of about two to three months. But that will be the extent of it. Immediately we are into the new financial year—indeed, just before the end of it because the expenditure will not fall due to be paid until we are into the new financial year—it will be possible to proceed with the contracts.

Viscount Brookeborough

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that much of the recent expense and violence could well have been avoided had the Government granted the extra troops which were requested by the Chief Constable and the GOC at the time that they were requested; that is, prior to the recent well-forecasted increase?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I recognise my noble friend's direct concern in these matters. However, if he will forgive me for saying so, that is a rather different Question from the one that appears on the Order Paper.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, I should like to thank the noble Lord, Lord Belstead, for the full reply that he gave to the noble Lord, Lord Holme of Cheltenham. Nevertheless, in deciding whether or not the Housing Executive is to be deprived of any funds which it would otherwise receive and spend on housing, do the Government take fully into account the fact that there are 6,000 people who are homeless and about 22,000 people who are on the waiting list for housing, some of whom are in that position due to intimidation? Is the Minister aware that those people could testify that they find the decision to be grossly unfair? Further, is there not a danger that financial restrictions of such a nature may help to convince the IRA, and other terrorist organisations, that Britain has a maximum price limit beyond which it will not go in upholding law and order in Northern Ireland?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I recognise the noble Lord's concern in the matter. However, I believe that it is worth pointing out that the per capita expenditure on housing is higher in Northern Ireland than it is in Great Britain. As a Northern Ireland Minister, I take some pride in that fact. The noble Lord also asked me a very important question about people who are homeless and those who are affected so far as concerns their homes.

I should draw your Lordships' attention to the fact that there is a little-known scheme for the purchase of evacuated dwellings called SPED. The scheme is run by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and was set up precisely for the reason that its name implies. It has a running cost of £3 million for this year. The money for the programme is paid back to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive in full. Compensation for terrorist damage to housing is also paid by the Northern Ireland Housing Executive and it is running at an additional £1 million over and above its budget for this year. Again, that is repaid in full.

But, inevitably, those amounts of money which are repaid to the Northern Ireland Housing Executive in full make demands on the Northern Ireland block of expenditure. I believe that the noble Lord's final point was also made by the noble Lord, Lord Holme of Cheltenham. I have, therefore, already replied to it.

Lord Holme of Cheltenham

My Lords, I believe that the House will welcome the Minister's assurance—we certainly do on these Benches—that the contracts will be very rapidly resumed in the new financial year. That is extremely good news. However, can he say whether the £7.5 million deficit of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive will be dealt with in the new financial year with the same promptitude?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I have also read the remarks of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive regarding a deficit. However, I believe that all I ought to say this afternoon is that public expenditure—including, incidentally, rental income and capital receipts—for the Northern Ireland Housing Executive has remained fairly constant over the past four years. On the figures that I have, that position should continue for the next financial year.

Lord Prys-Davies

My Lords, perhaps I may return to one part of the Minister's reply. There is an impression in Northern Ireland that the Housing Executive was deprived of £16 million during the year 1991–92. Can the noble Lord say whether there is any basis for that impression?

Lord Belstead

My Lords, I can give the noble Lord the run of figures: in 1989–90 there was £476 million in total public expenditure terms, including rental income and capital receipts; £472 million for the following year; and £491 million for the current year. The latter is not a true figure because it included the repayment of a loan of £12 million. Therefore, the true figure for the current year is £479 million. We have earmarked £483 million for next year. It was on those grounds that I said to the noble Lord, Lord Holme of Cheltenham, that I believe the fairly steady state of expenditure on housing in Northern Ireland will continue next year.