HL Deb 28 January 1992 vol 534 cc1161-4

2.37 p.m.

Lord Ennals

asked Her Majesty's Government:

How many Vietnamese boat people in Hong Kong have been repatriated (a) voluntarily and (b) by compulsion.

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (The Earl of Caithness)

My Lords, since the voluntary repatriation programme was introduced in March 1989, 15,000 Vietnamese migrants have returned voluntarily to Vietnam under UNHCR auspices, and 138 have returned under repatriation arrangements agreed with the Vietnamese.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Will he comment on the unprecedented numbers of voluntary returnees? Does he agree with me that in view of the very large numbers who are now returning voluntarily, it would be unwise for the Government to proceed with mandatory forcible repatriations, not only because it would do damage to Britain's reputation, but because it would overload the resettlement arrangements being made by the Vietnamese Government with very little international aid?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I can do no better than quote the report of the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, who went to Vietnam in January 1990. He stated that: The right place for persons not classified as refugees was their country of origin". It is quite right therefore that we welcome the increase in volunteers. That has come about by the agreement reached by the Vietnamese and British Governments.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that the position would be eased if relations between the United States Government and the Vietnamese Government were improved? Can he say whether there is any prospect of that? Can he also say what is our aid programme in Vietnam at the present time, and whether the Vietnamese Government are receiving any help from the International Monetary Fund or from the World Bank?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, it would be a good thing if America reconsidered her attitude toward Vietnam; but that is a question for the Americans. With regard to our aid, it is part of an EC agreement on helping with the reintegration of the boat people coming back from Hong Kong and other parts in South-East Asia. There is a fund at the moment—the EC International Fund—which totals 45 million dollars. Britain's contribution is 20 per cent. of 40 million dollars, which is our apportionment, plus a further 5 million dollars. Therefore we are contributing about 30 per cent. of the programme.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, I have noted from reports in the press that relations have improved between the United States and Vietnam. Can the noble Earl confirm whether there is any truth in that?

The Earl of Caithness

Yes, my Lords. There has been an improvement, and we wish that improvement to continue and to develop further.

Lord Marlesford

My Lords, can my noble friend give the House an assurance whether those who have been repatriated, either voluntarily or compulsorily, have been persecuted on their return to Vietnam?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, like the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, when he went to Vietnam, we found no evidence of persecution during our visit; none was found by the British Embassy and none by UNHCR.

Lord Mellish

My Lords, will the Minister be good enough to explain to the House exactly how many people we are talking about? Is it a fact that there was at one time a school of thought in this country which said that the Hong Kong people ought to take them?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, as I said in my original Answer, more than 15,000 Vietnamese migrants have returned from Hong Kong; and a further 3,000 from other first asylum countries in the region. There are 58,890 Vietnamese people still in Hong Kong.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, on the evidence of the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, if the dual repatriation arrangement is working, would it not be sensible to allow that to continue in that way?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I thoroughly agree with my noble friend. It is due to the orderly repatriation programme that has been agreed with the Vietnamese that the number of volunteers has increased. In the middle of last year, we were down to very few volunteers; now, as a result of what has been agreed, there has been an increase in the number. There have been two flights in the recent past and there will be more in the future.

Lord Kennet

My Lords, has there been any recent change in the trends of repatriation by the American administration of Mexican and Caribbean boat people, or frontier people, coming into the United States?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, that is a most interesting question, but it is rather wide of that on the Order Paper.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, did not my noble friend Lord Ennals ask a perfectly reasonable question? He asked whether the Government considered that the voluntary process was sufficient in itself, and whether they should therefore suspend the compulsory programme for the time being. That seems to be a perfectly reasonable question which, as far as I can discover, has not been answered.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, I answered that question when replying to my noble friend Lord Harmar-Nicholls. It is a combination of both the orderly repatriation arrangements and the volunteers that has made the process work so satisfactorily.

Lord Geddes

My Lords, how many of the voluntary repatriates came from what used to be called North Vietnam, and how many from South Vietnam? An indicator might well be there regarding the economic viability and the economic strain on those refugees.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, the vast majority have come from central and northern Vietnam. I do not have the precise figures, but I could obtain them for my noble friend.

The Earl of Onslow

My Lords, I seek elucidation. Are the refugees racially Han-Chinese? Do they first put in to a Chinese port before they get to Hong Kong? If they do so, should not China be the place for them to be sent back to rather than Vietnam? I say that for the simple reason that that is where they came from and that is where they should go back as a port of first call. I seek this as elucidation from a pile of ignorance.

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, on a point of clarification, they are not refugees until they have gone through the screening process. They are migrants. Some are seeking a better life, as the noble Lord, Lord Ennals, found out; some are true refugees. Some come direct from Vietnam, some come via China and some come from the Portuguese territory of Macau. At the present time we believe that the best way to return them to their home—that is, the non-refugees—is to send them straight back to Vietnam.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, perhaps I may say to the Minister how grateful I am that his conclusions when he reached Vietnam tallied with my own, even though I am not at all convinced that the voluntary programme is speeding up because of their mandatory programme. I have a further specific question. How many boat people have volunteered to return but are still awaiting permission to return?

The Earl of Caithness

My Lords, we have about 4,000 volunteers waiting to come back. They can volunteer but if they wish to change their mind at any time they are able to do so. That is exactly what happened in the middle of last year when we ran out of volunteers. It is quite interesting to note that the volunteers started to grow in number and to come forward as soon as we put into position an orderly repatriation programme.