Spitting in Public (Hansard, 23 January 1992)

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)
My Lords, such disagreeable conduct is more suitably regulated by private decorum than by government intervention.

The Viscount of Falkland
My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his Answer. I agree with him. Is it not the case that although spitting can be excused in dire cases where people have to spit or perform some other personal habit which is disagreeable, it should be done discreetly? Is it not also the case that nowadays more 947 people spit repeatedly without consideration for others? Cannot the Government take a lead in the same way as they have concerning people who throw cola cans and litter? Will they bring to the attention of people who spit the potentially anti-social effects of their behaviour?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I believe that all noble Lords would agree that it is offensive behaviour. However, there is a difference between spitting at people and spitting in the presence of people. Spitting directly at or on to somebody might, if one can so put it, be caught by the law. It could constitute a criminal offence. It could be an assault at common law which would carry a level 5 fine of £2,000 or six months' imprisonment or both. It could be caught as an offence under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986. If a court decided that such behaviour was threatening, abusive or insulting (in my judgment, it could be all three) and was likely to cause, or did cause, harassment, alarm or distress (it might also follow that all three of those matters apply) there would be a level 3 fine of £400. Alternatively, the behaviour could be caught as being likely to cause a breach of the peace. In that case a person could be bound over.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, is the noble Earl old enough to remember, as I do, the notices in buses and tube trains—on the Continent, certainly, and, I believe, also in Britain— saying "Spitting spreads TB"? Is not the appearance of the so-called killer mutant strains of the TB bug now a reason to consider reintroducing such notices?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, my advice is that there is no medical or public health hazard which arises from spitting. The Department of Health regards the latest article which has appeared suggesting that there is a risk as inaccurate. My information is that there is no risk of contracting TB from exposure to somebody coughing or spitting in the street. I am old enough to remember the same things as the noble Lord, Lord Kennet; but whether I do remember them or not is another matter. There are plenty of examples of spitting being prohibited in other countries. For example, in Singapore it is an offence to eat or drink on the tube; it is an offence to chew gum; it is an offence to spit; and it is also an offence not to flush the lavatory. All are excellent inducements for people to carry out those functions or not to, but the Government do not intend at this moment to follow those measures.

§ Lord Monson
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that during Ramadan, which, as the noble Earl knows, begins in early March this year, strict Moslems are not meant to swallow even their own saliva, which is the reason why there is so much spitting in Moslem countries? Does that not present certain difficulties, given the religious composition of this country today?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I thought that the main difference was that in the example given by the noble Lord one was swallowing the saliva, but in the instance given by the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, it was a question of ejecting it.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that spitting can result in trespass to the person if it is done with sufficient accuracy?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I can only say that I am reminded of a little ditty relating to Julius Caesar which I was taught when I was at school. It was: Julius Caesar let a greaser right across the street, And hit Agrippa on the nipper And knocked him off his seat".

§ Lord Rea
My Lords, while it is extremely difficult to cap that one, can the noble Earl remind me whether or not there was a song in the 1960s called, "No Spitting on the Bus"? Does the noble Earl agree that that habit has now become rather rare? Does he further agree that it would be a good idea to commission the noble Viscount, Lord Falkland, to write a song to deal with the present problem which he finds offensive?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that is certainly an idea which the noble Viscount may care to follow. However, I can tell the noble Lord that there were conduct regulations in 1936 which created the specific offence of spitting on buses. Those regulations have now been replaced by the Public Service Vehicles (Conduct of Drivers, Inspectors, Conductors and Passengers) Regulations 1990 and it is no longer an offence.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, does the noble Earl remember that in the 1930s in the fair town of Manchester—I am sure that his noble friend Lord Wade recalls it—there were two notices in awkward juxtaposition. The messages said, "Do not spit" and "Use the ship canal".

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, that just shows the fertility of the imagination of the noble Lord.

§ Baroness Masham of Ilton
My Lords, will the noble Earl consult the medical dictionary in the Library where he will see that TB can be spread by sputum? This is quite a serious question.

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I dare say that the book in the Library does say that. I have taken advice from a more current source and I am advised that it is not so.

§ Lord Whaddon
My Lords, leaving aside the more draconian regulations in Singapore, is the noble Earl aware that in certain other countries—I recall that it happened in Poland where spitting in the street was prevalent—a government advertising campaign against the habit of spitting was very effective? Will the Government consider such action here?

Earl Ferrers
My Lords, I do not believe that we have got to the state where we wish to use that kind of advertising in preference to other more suitable kinds of advertising.

§ Lord Annan
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that there has been an improvement in your Lordships' House in this matter? I believe it is now 230 years since Lord Cobham showed his disapproval of Lord Harvey by spitting in his hat.