HL Deb 24 February 1992 vol 536 cc1-3

Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked Her Majesty's Government:

What is the total expenditure in the current year on the administration of the War Crimes Act; what expenditure is planned for next year; and how many prosecutions have been started.

The Minister of State, Home Office (Earl Ferrers)

My Lords, the estimated cost for the financial year 1991–92 is £1.03 million in England and Wales and £400,000 in Scotland. For the next financial year the estimated cost is £10.2 million in England and Wales and £1.23 million in Scotland. No prosecutions have yet been started.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. Does it not show that in the recent dispute with another place this House was right?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, there is no relationship between the two matters.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, do the estimated costs for next year include the estimated costs of prosecution?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, the estimated costs for next year include the sum of £2.5 million for the Crown Prosecution Service.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, as the legislation was passed by another place with large majorities on at least five occasions and was later subject to the Parliament Acts, should not the will of the elected Chamber prevail? Will the Government confirm that the investigations will be continued at all possible speed?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, Parliament has methods for deciding which business should be passed. This business was passed by Parliament and it is the Government's intention to see that Parliament's intention is carried through.

Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone

My Lords, given that under the Parliament Acts the will of the elected Chamber has prevailed, had we not better wait to see the outcome before we decide who was right on the merits?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I fancy that each of your Lordships will have his own opinion as to who is right. The fact is that Parliament passed the Act and it is now the Government's duty to put Parliament's wishes into effect.

Lord Shaughnessy

My Lords, in view of the dismal experience in Australia and Canada over prosecutions under similar war crimes legislation, does not the Minister believe that the time has come to put an end to the pursuit of retribution that the legislation proposes?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, Parliament in its wisdom decided upon the course of action to be taken. That course of action is being taken. Whether the experience of Canada and Australia has any bearing is another matter. It would not be right to comment upon cases which are tried in other jurisdictions where the framing of the legislation may not necessarily be comparable with ours.

Lord Richard

My Lords, I was one who voted for the passage of the Bill in the House, but £10.2 million for next year seems a great deal of money. Will the Minister tell us upon what it is being spent?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I agree, it does seem to be a great deal of money: £1.5 million is being spent on the police, as compared with £930,000 this year; £2.5 million on the CPS; £900,000 on the Lord Chancellor's Department; and £5.3 million on legal aid. Those last two figures do not feature in the estimates for the current year.

Lord Annan

My Lords, are not the fees being raised for the benefit of the legal profession?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, I do not believe that there is any correlation between the two in that question either.

Lord Richard

My Lords, as no one has yet been prosecuted, who is receiving £5.3 million in legal aid?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, that is the provision for next year.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, are any prosecutions pending?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, a great deal of investigation is going on. When the investigation concludes in such a way as to require a prosecution, there will then be a prosecution. We are not in that position.

Lord Stoddart of Swindon

My Lords, how many cases are under investigation at the moment?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, 300 cases were identified by the Hetherington-Chalmers parliamentary inquiry. Since then, a further 43 cases have been brought to the attention of the Metropolitan Police War Crimes Unit. All those cases have been reviewed, and 114 cases are under investigation.

Lord Wilberforce

My Lords, what was the cost of the Scottish court's recent excursion to Eastern Europe to take evidence?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, that is a civil case which has nothing to do with a criminal case.

Lord Dean of Beswick

My Lords, what would the legal position be if a person suing for libel won his case and was the subject of a later charge of being a war criminal?

Earl Ferrers

My Lords, that is a hypothetical situation. I would not dream of commenting until we knew the result of a particular case.

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