Amphibious Forces (Hansard, 18 February 1992)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (The Earl of Arran)
My Lords, the decision to retain an amphibious capability in the longer term is an integral part of our plans for Britain's Defence for the 90s. That was confirmed by my right honourable friend the Minister for Defence Procurement in another place on 13th February 1992.

§ Lord Cochrane of Cults
My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that reply which contains much more encouraging information than had been expected prior to the Statement given in another place. Nonetheless, that Statement referred to project definition contracts. Can my noble friend tell the House how long those contracts will last and how long after they are completed it is expected that the contracts for the replacement of the two major ships, which are both between 25 and 27 years old, will be placed?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the results from the various studies will begin to be received towards the end of this year. The current plans are for the invitation to tender to be issued in the spring of next year with an order date in the autumn of 1994.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, the Government gave such a full and satisfactory reply in another place last week that it seems a little unkind to ask them for more information. But, nonetheless, we are tempted to ask for further information. In particular, will the Minister consider publishing the staff requirement of the amphibious ships? We are told that the helicopter carrier will carry 12 helicopters of a certain kind and that there is another more modern helicopter, but what crew will they carry? What marines and so on will be on board those ships? It might be useful to know the staff requirements. The White Paper refers to 5,000 personnel in amphibious warfare. Are those all Royal Marines? Finally, we have heard about taking ships from the merchant trade with the red ensign, but will those ships be available when the time comes?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we very much hope that the ships will be available when the time comes, if they are needed. On the noble Lord's other question about personnel, that is something about which it might be more appropriate for me to write to the noble Lord. However, but I can certainly tell him that the helicopter carrier will initially carry Sea Kings and that the transition from Sea Kings to EH101s will depend upon the development of the EH101 aircraft. The order last year was for 44 Merlin helicopters which, as the noble Lord will know, is the 1110 anti-submarine warfare variant of the Anglo-Italian EH101. Those 44 helicopters will be deployed on aircraft carriers and type 23 frigates.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my noble friend explain why the very important Statement that was made in another place on 13th February was not repeated in this House, thus not allowing your Lordships the chance to ask questions?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, my understanding is that the Opposition did not require a Statement to be made.

§ Lord Carver
My Lords, will the Minister assure the House that the revised manpower targets that have been set for the Navy, which were reduced by 5,000 from the original Options for Change to the second when, in the original case, the replacement for the ships was not confirmed, will allow the Royal Navy to be certain that it is capable of manning those ships?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, certainly, that will be the case. If the ships to be placed are within the bounds of the Royal Navy, the appropriate manning power must be there to look after them.

§ Lord Mayhew
My Lords, despite the many changes in the Baltic and elsewhere since Options for Change, are we still committed to NATO for providing the resources for amphibious landings in Norway?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Mayhew, is quite correct. With Dutch counterparts, they are assigned to the Supreme Allied Commander (Atlantic) as part of NATO's rapid reaction forces and could indeed form part of the ACE Rapid Reaction Corps.

§ Lord Shepherd
My Lords, following the question of the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, there may well have been consultations with the Opposition, but on the other hand, the Government must make up their own mind about consultation in the interests of the House as a whole. Given that the House has attached considerable interest to this matter, will the Leader of House undertake in future to consider the wider interests in such matters, as opposed to those between the Government and the Opposition only?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we certainly try to accommodate the Opposition as much as possible. We shall certainly take note of that matter in the future, given what my noble friend Lord Boyd-Carpenter has said.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, perhaps I may reinforce what my noble friend Lord Shepherd has said. On at least one and possibly on two occasions recently the Government have made Statements without a request from the Opposition. That is perfectly reasonable. It is for the Government to decide whether they wish to make a Statement. Turning to the subject matter of the Question, perhaps I may ask the Minister about the overhaul programme 1111 that has been announced for land and support vessels other than for "Sir Galahad" and "Sir Tristram". When will that overhaul programme begin?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I apologise but I did not understand what the noble Lord, Lord Williams, said. Is he talking about the overhaul situation?

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, I am talking about the five landing ships—the beach landing support vessels—that the Government are committed to maintaining. We now know that "Sir Galahad" is a new ship; that "Sir Tristram" has been substantially rebuilt and that the Government intend to implement a fundamental overhaul and re-equipment of the other three vessels. When will that programme begin?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Williams, for expanding on his earlier question. As regards the five ships, design studies are underway into SLEP, which stands for the ship life extension programme, for three of them. We hope to issue the first invitation to tender in the first half of next year.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my noble friend make it clear that his answer does not mean that the Opposition have a veto on the repetition in your Lordships' House of important government Statements?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, no. The Opposition do not have a veto in that respect.

Lord lronside
My Lords, will the landing ship docks—or LPDs—which are to be built for the Royal Navy be compatible with a similar vessel that is to be built by the Royal Dutch Navy for the purpose of taking part in the Anglo-Dutch combined landing force, which is still required in the North Sea?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I cannot say exactly that it will be completely equivalent to the ship that the Dutch Navy will be using in that exercise. However, it will follow its particular role, which is as an assault ship to transport troops and vehicles ashore, using its landing craft and helicopters.