HL Deb 22 October 1991 vol 531 cc1423-4

Page and line references are to Bill 59 as first printed for the Lords

1 Clause 17, page 8, line 46, after ("2") insert ("[Offers for sale of securities]")

2 Page 9, line 3, after first ("to") insert ("6, 7 to")

Lord Reay

My Lords, I beg to move that the House do now agree with the Commons in their consequential Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 en bloc.

In speaking to Amendment No. 1, I wish also to speak to Amendment No. 2. Both these amendments are purely consequential on the original amendment passed by this House last week, with which the Commons agreed. Noble Lords will recall that that amendment would require the Secretary of State to consult the representatives of the universities about the sale of BTG.

Amendment No. 1 is consequential to that amendment. It provides that the clause of the Bill which provides for this consultation will come into effect on Royal Assent rather than on the appointed day for the vesting of the assets and liabilities of the NEB and NRDC in a successor company which may be some time after Royal Assent.

We make this amendment to ensure that the Government will have to commence consultation with the universities immediately on Royal Assent rather than some months from now. We believe that this provision for early commencement of the consultation process should be welcome to your Lordships and that it is entirely in the spirit of the original amendment in this House. I wish to add that my department will take the statutory responsibility to consult seriously and that my officials have already set up a meeting for preparatory discussions with the CVCP later this week.

Amendment No. 2 is another simple consequential amendment. It ensures that the new clause proposed by the Lords amendment will extend to Northern Ireland. The original Lords amendment refers to the universities of the United Kingdom and the Bill would therefore be technically faulty if it were to exclude Northern Ireland.

Although we saw difficulties with the principal amendment when it was moved, once it was carried in this House we judged it best to advise another place to accept it. We hope that it will lay to rest any lingering fears in the academic community that their views may not be taken fully into account during the sale process. We shall work to ensure that the objections to the amendment that I tabled on Third Reading do not apply. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Flowers, on the success of his amendment. I hope the House will accept these two minor amendments which tie up consequential points arising from the Lords' amendment to the Bill.

Moved, That the House do agree with the Commons in their consequential Amendments Nos. 1 and 2.—(Lord Reay.)

Lord Williams of Elvel

My Lords, the House will be grateful to the Minister for bringing these Commons amendments before us. We are also grateful for the words the Minister used in introducing the amendments. We thank the Government for accepting the decision of this House—that decision was opposed by the Government but was carried on a Division, as the noble Lord rightly recognised—which we feel gives greater assurance to universities on how the privatisation of BTG will work.

We also welcome what the Minister said in another place on the 15 per cent. rule on the articles of association. That reply went a little further than the noble Lord, Lord Reay, was able to go when we finally said goodbye to this Bill when it left this House. The most welcome statement made by the Minister is that the Government intend to take the process of consultation seriously and have already set up a mechanism for it. That gives great comfort to those of us who feared that, as "consultation" is a fairly anodyne word, it might have been used in an anodyne way by the Government and comprise merely a few telephone calls.

We on these Benches are grateful to the Government for accepting an amendment which was passed on a cross-party vote against the Government. I believe there would have been trouble had the Government not accepted the amendment. The Government have done the wise thing and I welcome the words the noble Lord, Lord Reay, used in introducing the amendments. We support the amendments.

Lord Beloff

My Lords, in the absence of the noble Lord, Lord Flowers, I hope I may express the appreciation he would have expressed at the fact that the Government have advised another place to accept the amendment moved in this House. On the final day of the Session I express the personal hope that this action may be a prelude to Her Majesty's Government taking rather more seriously the expert opinion available in this House on matters affecting universities.

Lord Rochester

My Lords, I just wish to add briefly that we on these Benches are very pleased that the amendment has been accepted.

On Question, Motion agreed to.