Unemployment Figures (Hansard, 17 October 1991)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Employment (Viscount Ullswater)
My Lords, in September 1991 seasonally adjusted unemployment in the United Kingdom was 2,460,600.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, is the Minister aware that that figure is the 18th consecutive monthly increase and that it is a disgrace in a modern civilised society? Is the Minister further aware that it demonstrates not only the incompetence of the Government but also their insensitivity? Is he also aware that that figure includes the highest ever number of young people who are unemployed and that manufacturing jobs are still being lost at an increasing rate? As both of those factors are crucially important to the development of a successful economy, can the Minister say when the Government are going to think about changing their policies?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, this month's rise in the seasonally adjusted number of unemployed is the smallest for nearly a year. It provides further confirmation that the rate of increase in unemployment has fallen substantially. The figure for seasonally adjusted unemployment rose by 35,000 in September compared with 55,000 in the previous month. There are now unmistakable signs of the end of the recession. Surveys of business and consumer confidence show a clear upward trend. Exports have been rising and also orders. As regards the young unemployed, it is of note and very important that the United Kingdom rate of youth unemployment—that is, the under-25s—is three percentage points below the average for the EC.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, does my noble friend happen to have with him the figure for the number of people in employment at the latest date and how that compares with previous years?

§ Viscount Ullswater
Yes, my Lords. The workforce in employment stands at 26,177,000. That is an increase of 800,000 jobs over 1979. However, that does not include the 1.4 million increase in the number of the self-employed since June 1979.

§ Lord Tordoff
My Lords, the next step in this charade that we have once a month is that someone asks how many of that number of employed refers to 1216 part-timers. Is it not the case that the Government will reply that part-time work is very valuable as well? And on we go.

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I am sure that noble Lords would like me to go on. Persons in part-time employment total just over 6 million, which is a healthy sign of an increased labour market flexibility. It is good for the economy. I believe that the majority of those who occupy part-time jobs prefer to work part time as it suits their lifestyle.

§ Lord Mason of Barnsley
My Lords, is the Minister aware that from July last year until July of this year the number of unemployed young people between the ages of 18 and 24 has risen to 706,000, which is an increase of 54 per cent. in one year? Is the Minister further aware that the estimate is that by July of next year there will be 1 million young people unemployed, which is about one-third of the figure anticipated for the unemployed by July of next year? Does not the Minister agree that that is the most disturbing aspect of this worrying trend of unemployment? Can the Minister say what the Government have in mind in tackling this particular aspect of unemployment?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the Government are very concerned about that aspect. The number quoted by the noble Lord is one quarter less than it was in July 1986. The reason for that is that the Government have instituted a very serious youth training programme. Currently there are over 260,000 young people in training. The programme has a budget of about £840,000. That is the best way to get young people properly trained, if they are not going to continue in further education, so that they prepare themselves for the work market.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, can my noble friend say how that figure of 260,000 young people in youth training compares with the previous figures for the same subject?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, that is a very interesting question. In 1978–79, when there was another government in power, there were about 7,000 places only compared with the 260,000 places that exist today.

§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon
My Lords, will the noble Viscount confirm that as well as increasing by 35,000 the number of unemployed the number of vacancies has also fallen? Will he also confirm that over 50 per cent. of the additional unemployed are in London and the South-East? I am sure that the noble Viscount will agree that that is a serious matter for the Government and their fortunes at the next election. Can the Minister say whether the Government will now make a dramatic gesture by reducing interest rates by 1 per cent., which would still leave them at 0.25 per cent. above the German interest rates? Does he not agree that that would give a boost to confidence in industry and also to consumer confidence, which would give a kickstart to a real economic recovery either later this year or next year?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, the figure for vacancies is at a low period. I believe that that indicates that in September a record number of people for a year found jobs. About 359,000 people left unemployment during the course of September. That shows that there is a dynamic dimension to the labour market. It means that a number of vacancies are being offered to the job market and taken up. From the figures it is easy to draw the conclusion that London and the South-East have borne the brunt of the recession. That proves the success of the Government's regional policies in the North and Scotland where unemployment fell last month.

§ Lord Hailsham of Saint Marylebone
My Lords, before we fling about unjustified charges of insensitivity and disgrace, does my noble friend agree that it would be more rational and honest to recognise that unemployment is a very serious international problem which deserves something better than superficial political hypocrisy?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I agree with my noble and learned friend. I have said many times from this Dispatch Box that unemployment is very difficult for those who find themselves in that state and for their families. I have also tried to indicate that the Government are very concerned for their plight and have brought in a number of measures to assist the unemployed to get jobs and to return to the workplace as soon as possible.

§ Baroness Turner of Camden
My Lords, does the Minister agree that we now have a very deregulated labour market in this country? Does he therefore accept that it is not employment regulation that inhibits employment creation? Does the noble Viscount further agree that unemployment arises as a result of the Government's economic policy rather than regulation in the employment field?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Baroness. The Government's industrial relations reforms have created a very peaceful industrial relations environment; so much so that we are the favoured European location for the United States and Japan. On Monday of this week a Nomura Research Institute survey showed that Japanese investment in the United Kingdom will create 447,000 jobs over the next four years. I hope that that will be welcomed on both sides of the House.

§ Lord Jay
My Lords, will the Minister say what is the present annual cost of unemployment to the Exchequer?

§ Viscount Ullswater
No, my Lords. That is wide of the question on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Campbell of Alloway
My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that the noble Lord, Lord Dormand of Easington, was suggesting that there are some policies that should be changed? On a purely constructive merit, is the Minister aware of what those policies are that the party opposite suggest should be changed and how it is proposed they should be changed, as a matter of policy, by that party?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, we would welcome knowledge of those policies. We believe we have the right policies—which have been very successful—to bear down on inflation and to cut interest rates on the back of that; which we have done by 41 per cent. since last October.

Lord Bruce of Donington
My Lords, is the noble Viscount aware that the annual net cost to the revenue of the existing levels of recent unemployment is approximately £19 billion? Is he also aware —since he has introduced the 1978–79 comparison in one of his answers—that if the same method that existed in 1978–79 of presenting unemployment is applied now the true figure of unemployment would be over 3,400,000?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, I should like a commitment from the noble Lord and the party opposite that they will change the definition should they return to power.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, the Minister very understandably tells me that the increase this month has been smaller than on previous occasions. Perhaps I am entitled to ask when he believes unemployment will begin to fall—rather than increase more slowly—so that it returns to something like the figure of 1.2 million that applied when the Labour Government left office?

§ Viscount Ullswater
My Lords, my answer is simple. The Government are not in the habit of making forecasts of this nature. We have the right policies for bearing down on inflation. That will stimulate the economy and also stimulate the number of jobs created.