§ 3.4 p.m.
§ Lord Hatch of Lusby asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ Whether they will investigate whether any Members of the two Houses of the Parliament received financial assistance from the South African Government for their opposition to sanctions.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I heard the Foreign Secretary of the South African Republic state publicly in Pretoria that he had a secret fund which he had been operating in order to combat sanctions by any means? He then added, 1095
and these means include bringing politicians and other leaders from different parts of the world in order to convince them that they should be supporting us in opposing sanctions".Is it not the responsibility of the Government to find out whether any Members of either House of our Parliament have been in that way influenced by the South African Government in their opposition to sanctions?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, in answer to the noble Lord's first question—yes, now that he has told me. In answer to his second question, every Peer in this House should know the standing orders on declaring an interest.
§ Lord Harmar-NichollsMy Lords, as my noble friend's answer makes clear that his department has no knowledge which would justify the innuendo that honourable Members of another place and noble Members of this House have accepted bribes to work with a foreign government against the best interests of this country, how can a Question such as this be allowed on the Order Paper?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, we have no knowledge of any allegation. The issue of whether it is a Question fit for the Order Paper has nothing to do with me.
§ Lord MellishMy Lords, perhaps I may put it on record that I am opposed to sanctions—I've never had a penny off anybody.
Viscount TonypandyMy Lords, is it not the custom of both Houses that we respect each other's integrity? The rule has been firmly followed in another place, to my certain knowledge. Nothing but trouble can come if we start abusing another place or if it starts abusing us, old though we may be.
§ Lord KinnairdMy Lords, does my noble friend not agree that an apology might not come amiss for asking such a Question?
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, the noble Earl has quoted the guidelines on the declaration of interests. I think I have been in this House for every debate or Question on South Africa. I have never heard of any interest declared among those who have opposed sanctions. I quote again to him the Foreign Minister of South Africa, who has said publicly that he has been using South African Government funds in order to bring anyone he could get to the country in order to persuade them to oppose sanctions overseas. That is the basis of my Question. I am making allegations against no one. I am simply asking the Government to investigate whether the assertions made by Pik Botha apply to any Member of our Parliament.