Trident (Hansard, 20 November 1991)

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, no.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is it not customary, or at least not uncustomary, for a government faced with a serious problem to sound out the position generally and to see whether they cannot achieve consensus on it? Is it also not the case that opinion on nuclear weapons is generally moving? It has moved in the United States and has already moved quite a large distance in the Soviet Union. In those circumstances, is this not the time to see whether consensus might be found on an all-party basis in this country?

§ The Earl of Arran
No, my Lords, that is not the Government's viewpoint. In fact, the noble Lord would probably entirely disagree with what his Front Bench is saying on this point. I will say one thing to the noble Lord. We have always said that if in time the United States and Soviet arsenals were further reduced substantially, and if there had been no significant improvements in defensive capabilities, we 897 would consider how best we might contribute to the arms control process in the light of the changed circumstances.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, in view of the noble Earl's last answer to the previous Question, is it the Government's view that these nuclear weapons will be a permanent feature of the British defence force; or do the Government have the ambition expressed in other countries that eventually nuclear weapons will be eliminated? Bearing that in mind, is the noble Earl aware that the supply of missiles from the United States to this country is held by many people to be an infringement of the non-proliferation treaty? The time may well come when what I have suggested will be accepted in the United States as well as in other parts of the world.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, we do not accept that the supply of missiles from the United States to this country goes against the non-proliferation treaty. I pointed out to the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, that if matters were to improve we would consider how best we might contribute to the arms control process in the light of any changed circumstances.

§ Lord Hatch of Lusby
My Lords, are not conditions improving now? Does the noble Earl agree that conditions in this area of activity have improved and are improving?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, conditions may have improved, but all noble Lords will understand that we still live in an extremely uncertain world.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that he has correctly stated the position of the Opposition Front Bench and of my party? I said in the debate on the Defence Estimates that we believe that Trident has to be kept and has to developed in the way the Government are developing it, subject to the problem of the fourth boat. There is a slight difference of opinion between us on the matter—we shall have to see how that works. Is he further aware that, if we are in government, we propose to keep Trident unless and until everyone else in the world gives up their nuclear weapons?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am extremely grateful for the noble Lord's pronunciation of the present policy of his party; whether it will be its future policy is a totally different matter.
The noble Lord referred to the problem of the fourth boat. The fourth boat provides an assurance that over the life of the Trident force there will always be at least one boat on station at all times, invulnerable to pre-emptive attack.

§ Viscount Mountgarret
My Lords, does my noble friend not agree that the Question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins, has now been effectively answered in the affirmative as there would appear to be all-party agreement on the matter?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, there may be all-party agreement on that particular matter but not on the original Question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Jenkins.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, I feel that we shall not make much further progress across the Chamber. Perhaps it would be better for the noble Earl and myself to allow our proceedings to continue. I say that in the hope that his party will betray the same element of flexibility that is to be found in the Labour Party.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, there is no flexibility for the time being on these Benches.