HL Deb 09 May 1991 vol 528 cc1204-6

3.25 p.m.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether, in the light of assurances given when automatic ticket gates were introduced in the London Underground system, they are aware of the failure to operate an emergency system for the opening of these gates at Baker Street station on 29th April, despite an alarm warning, and of the consequent subjection of a substantial number of travellers to serious discomfort and alarm; and t action they propose to take.

The Minister of State, Department of Transport (Lord Brabazon of Tara)

My Lords, the incident at Baker Street followed the arrival of a train at platform five that emitted a series of bangs. There was no smoke or fire. As a precautionary measure the immediate area was cleared and the train emptied. British Transport Police officers arrived and ordered the station evacuated. Due to passenger build-up, two ticket gatelines were opened on staff's own initiative. On BTP orders all gatelines were opened and the station was evacuated in seven minutes. There was no panic at any time. London Underground has initiated an internal investigation of the incident.

Lord Boyd-Carpenter

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply. However, does he recall that when the gates were installed assurances were given both by Ministers and by London Underground that in the event of an emergency equipment would be available which could be operated instantaneously by a man who would always be on duty to open the gates? Quite plainly at the Baker Street incident that did not happen. If the alarm had been genuine rather than, mercifully, an unsound one, there would have been serious consequences. Will the Minister ensure that London Underground faces up to this problem and produces an acceptable and reliable solution?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am certainly well aware of the assurances that have been given on this matter. I am particularly well aware of my noble friend's interest in this matter from the questions he has asked on previous occasions. I have taken considerable care to investigate this incident. It appears that London Underground is blameless in this matter and the gates were opened within a reasonable space of time. Following the request made by the British Transport Police, all the gates were then opened and the station was evacuated within seven minutes from that time.

Lord Clinton-Davis

My Lords, is the Minister aware that that is not instantaneous action? Is it not a fact, as the noble Lord, Lord Boyd-Carpenter, stated, that with a delay of seven minutes this incident could easily have turned into a serious disaster involving a great many injuries? How often are the gates tested? Is London Underground complying with the recommendations of the working party which it accepted? What is the position on staff numbers? Have they been reduced, and to what extent, as a result of the installation of the gates?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am sorry to disagree with the noble Lord but in this case there was no question of the gates not opening as soon as the staff took the decision to open them. That is quite clear. The staff were on duty at the barriers and those barriers were opened. A little later the British Transport Police took the decision that all the barriers should be opened. At that time all the barriers were then opened immediately. From that time it then took seven minutes to evacuate the station. As regards the number of staff, as I have said a member of staff was in position at the gates. A member of staff must always be present at the gates and I am told that that is always the case.

Lord Campbell of Alloway

My Lords, is my noble friend the Minister aware that his response is not entirely reassuring or satisfactory? In a matter of a few minutes hundreds of people at a closed crash barrier can be injured and some can be killed. Is my noble friend further aware that this is the third time that I have suggested in your Lordships' House that the administration of the London Underground should be revitalised?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, I am sorry if my reply is unsatisfactory. So far as I have been made aware, the gates were opened when the necessity arose. The number of passengers built up at some gates and the staff decided to open them. It is important to remember that the original instructions given out on the loudspeaker after the incident occurred were not to evacuate the station.

Lord Tordoff

My Lords, that makes the situation rather worse. Is the noble Lord aware that what is necessary in these cases is instantaneous action? Were there not reports that references had to be made to other parts of the Underground organisation before a decision could be taken to open all the barriers? Is that the case? If so, what will be the effect of further reductions in manpower on the London Underground?

Lord Brabazon of Tara

My Lords, there is no question of reductions in manpower affecting this type of incident. As I have said, all automatic ticket barriers are manned. If for some reason they are not manned the barriers have to be left open. The incident was monitored on closed circuit television by the station inspector throughout. There was no question of a disaster occurring.

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