Adult Education (Hansard, 7 May 1991)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of the Environment (Baroness Blatch)
My Lords, the Government's proposals for the future of further education, including the further education of adults, will be set out in a White Paper which will be issued shortly.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, I look forward very much indeed to that White Paper. Is the Minister aware that the problems in education have made adult education the poor relation of the service? That is shown in the HMI report on adult education published earlier this year which shows that expenditure per head varies between £10 and a few pence. Does the noble Baroness accept that one of the 977 great strengths of adult education is the high motivation of the students involved? That means that the Government—this should appeal to the present Government—and the LEAs get great value for money. Something should be done as a matter of urgency about adult education.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, for the Government's part, the money going to LEAs has increased. Over the past year the SSA for education for local authorities was 16 per cent., which is well above the rate of inflation. If one breaks that down to the heading which includes adult education, one sees that that too was 13 per cent. How that money is deployed is very much a matter for the local education authorities. I do not know whether the noble Lord is advocating prescription from the centre.

§ Lord Taylor of Blackburn
My Lords, can the Minister give us some idea whether the White Paper will cover the WEA and other kindred organisations?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I can give that assurance. It will.

§ Baroness Seear
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that the local education authorities which get the money have a statutory obligation to look after other areas of education but no statutory obligation to support adult education? In those circumstances, it is very probable that adult education is, as many of us have seen, being neglected. At this time of rapid change and high unemployment it is important that people should learn and continue to learn. Adult education should be maintained and a lead from the Government would help that enormously.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the noble Baroness is absolutely right; it is not a statutory area of education. Therefore, it is a matter for local education authorities. I hope that there is not too much gloom in this respect, because the amount of adult education across the country is considerable. It is most important that the worst should be brought up to the standard of the best.

§ Baroness David
My Lords, can the Minister tell us something about local management of schools? She has just said that it is for LEAs to ensure that provision is made for adult education. However, LMS is very much a matter for the governors. If they choose not to make their premises available or try to make the cost too high, that will affect adult education.

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, if that was a general criticism of the education service I would agree with the noble Baroness. However, the practice is that many schools which now have their own budgets are increasing the provision of education which lies outside the normal statutory day.

§ Baroness Phillips
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, if more money is being put into education —whether adult or general education—it is very curious that so many teachers have been made redundant both in further education and in schools in general?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, it is not true that a large number of teachers are being made redundant; the facts simply do not bear out that statement. It is true that the pupil-teacher ratio has increased, more so than ever before.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, obviously we must wait to read the Government's White Paper. However, can the Minister tell us anything about what is happening to adult education in London at present? Now that the ILEA has gone, and bearing in mind that the remaining authorities are not obliged to provide adult education, the strong impression has been gained by some of us that adult education is actually beginning to decline in inner London. Can the noble Baroness tell us anything about that; in other words, can she throw any light on the matter? Further, do the Government have any idea as to what might be done about the situation, other than saying that it is up to the local authorities to do what they like?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the noble Lord will know that, for example, the main four colleges are in fact funded by the London Residuary Body. We all know that that will eventually move out of the frame and that there will have to be an alternative system of funding. It is too early to give indications as to exactly what the new funding will be. However, there is no questioning the fact that the activities within those colleges will continue. Of course, the funding mechanisms will be sorted out and addressed in the White Paper.

§ Lord Peston
My Lords, I should like the noble Baroness to address her mind to the real problem. I refer to the fact that adult education is not mandatory, as has already been pointed out, and therefore under any kind of financial pressure (as adults do not bring very much money with them) any local authority will be tempted, so to speak, to neglect that sector. Are the Government willing to let that happen willy-nilly?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, the Government have no plans to make adult education mandatory. I do not know whether the noble Lord's party has any plans to do so. However, we know that in practice adult education across the country is alive and well. Where a local education authority singles it out as a particular priority, it receives more attention than is the case with the authorities which do not believe it to be a high-priority consideration. I do not believe that adult education is at threat. I am sure that the noble Lord will see the Government's real commitment to it when the White Paper is published.

§ Lord Dormand of Easington
My Lords, bearing in mind the fact that self-fulfilment at a later age is what adult education brings about—and which indeed is very important—is it not of the utmost importance to the country's economy that re-education and re-training should continue at a higher rate than that which exists at present? Does the Minister agree with that view? Further, is it not something in respect of which very quick action should be taken?

§ Baroness Blatch
My Lords, I entirely agree with what the noble Lord said about the significance of 979 higher education. I am a product of adult continuing education. I know that it is important to a very large number of people, especially young people who are training and re-training. Again, when the White Paper is published, the noble Lord will see our commitment in that respect.