§ 3.6 p.m.
§ Lord Hatch of Lusby asked Her Majesty's Government:
§ What were the conclusions reached on environmental policy in the recent discussions held by the Secretary of State for the Environment in Washington.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State visited Washington on 5th to 7th June. This was a private visit and was not intended to reach conclusions on any specific subjects.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, has the noble Earl had the opportunity to read the working document 166 which the British delegation put to Brussels in March? It concerns the different approaches to the Rio conference of next year, in particular the difference between what is called the basket approach—the comprehensive approach—supported by the Americans and the step-by-step approach supported by the Europeans. Can he say whether his right honourable friend has had any effect in persuading the Americans to modify their stand, which many people believe will lead to a deadlock at the Rio conference next year? Secondly, is he aware of the issue of double counting which is also referred to in the document? It indicates that in estimating the targets for the reduction of omissions, those reductions which have already taken place, such as those in the Montreal Protocol, will be counted as credits against the final target reached in Rio?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is aware of the document to which the noble Lord refers. The point of the discussions in America was to cover a wide range of issues without reaching any conclusion. With regard to the second question, we are not counting the action of CFCs twice.
§ Lord Brougham and VauxMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that he is the first Minister ever to answer all four Questions at Question Time, and that I admire his stamina?
§ Baroness NicolMy Lords, will the noble Earl take this opportunity to reassure the House that the Government have not lost sight of their agenda which is laid out in the White Paper This Common Inheritance? For example, are they actively seeking an acceptable definition of "sustainable development"? Do they intend to carry on with the promised action to reduce the dumping of waste at sea? Those are just two of the objectives outlined in the White Paper.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, those questions are a little wide of the Question on the Order Paper. I raised this question yesterday when I was discussing the issue. I was delighted to hear that the Government are pursuing the objectives of the White Paper.
§ Lord Hatch of LusbyMy Lords, perhaps I may refer to the noble Earl's second answer. If he refers to paragraph 18 of the document that I mentioned, he will see—I shall not read the whole paragraph—that it concludes:
If a nation wishes to take such actions, it would be right to devise a credit for this against their total commitment on greenhouse gases".Does not that suggest support for the concept of double counting? Does the noble Earl agree with me that that process of double counting would be grossly unfair to third world countries which start at a much lower level of emissions? If there is double counting, that would allow a luxury use of emissions as against, for third world countries, those emissions which at present are essential to life.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I find the noble Lord's statement interesting and it stimulates a long discussion. Much is under consideration at present and I take careful note of his point.