Azerbaijan and Armenia: Human Rights (Hansard, 14 June 1991)

The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (The Earl of Caithness)
My Lords, we have made our anxieties about recent events known to the Soviet authorities. We look to them to preserve law and order in an even-handed way. We continue to urge all concerned to refrain from intimidation and violence and to act in accordance with the principles of the CSCE.

§ Baroness Cox
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that reply which is encouraging in its principled firmness.
Is my noble friend aware that the recent events to which he refers are continuing? Attacks by Azerbaijan forces on innocent Armenian villagers continue, with killing;, abductions and forced deportations. As recently as last weekend there were further reports of continuing atrocities. Will the Government consider making their response to the Soviet Union's request for massive economic assistance conditional upon the Soviet Government's genuine commitment to respect and protect the human rights of all its citizens?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we are indeed aware of the current troubled situation in the area. We have constant reports from our embassy in the Soviet Union that it is looking at the matter. We have had an up-to-date report from my noble friend Lady Cox, who has just led a delegation. Her report has indeed been useful to us.
I confirm that in calling on the Soviet authorities to live up to their undertakings made in the Paris Charter and the; CSCE documents we have made it perfectly clear that assistance will depend on continued commitment to reform.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, in view of the recent established position of Mr. Boris Yeltsin in the Russian Federation, and his desire to make direct contact with some of the more important countries of the world, will my noble friend approach Mr. Yeltsin with a view to obtaining his support over the atrocities in Azerbaijan against the Armenians?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, no, for this reason. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State, who has recently visited Russia, had a meeting with Mr. Yeltsin. He was one of the first Western leaders to meet Mr. Yeltsin on more than one 1278 occasion. He has made perfectly plain to Mr. Yeltsin our great concern about the human rights condition and other reforms in the Soviet Union. I am sure that my noble friend will agree that such an approach would come much better from my right honourable friend than from me.

§ Lord Kennet
My Lords, when Members of the Government—the point also applies to members of the United States Administration—meet the leaders of the troubled republics of the Soviet Union, what conversation do they have about the fact that under the Soviet constitution of 1977 those people have an absolute and undoubted right to secede from the Union provided that they go through all the legal hoops?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, as I have said on more than one occasion in your Lordships' House, events in the future of the Soviet Union must be a matter for the people themselves to decide in their own way. We have always said that it is best done by negotiation, not by armed intervention of any kind.

§ The Earl of Lauderdale
My Lords, while we welcome such bland generalisations as those we have just heard, does my noble friend agree that they do not go very far? Is he aware that some 70 years ago the world was shamed by the Armenian atrocities? We do not wish that history repeated. Would not a safe haven policy make sense? Will the Government take up the issue with Mr. Gorbachev when he is our guest in a few weeks' time?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, more than once my right honourable friend the Secretary of State has certainly made clear to Mr. Gorbachev our great anxiety in that regard. On reconsideration, I hope that my noble friend will not consider that my answers have been bland on this or any other subject.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, does the Minister agree that the breakup of the Soviet Union would not be of international advantage? It would certainly not be of advantage to the people of the Soviet Union, and would be of doubtful advantage to the various nationalities who make up the Soviet Union.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord will surely agree with me that it is up to the people of the Soviet Union to decide the future for themselves.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, will the noble Earl inform the House of the effect of the recent intervention of Soviet troops? A number of people think that those troops too have been responsible for violation of human rights, apparently destroying at least three villages and committing serious human rights violations. What is the effect of that in an already complicated situation?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the noble Lord is right in saying that the situation is complicated. That is borne out by the report of my noble friend Lady Cox. There is internal strife between Azerbaijan and Armenia. The Soviet authorities have assured us that they are trying to restore law and order on an 1279 even-handed basis. However, the noble Lord is right in saying that some reports indicate that it has not been as even-handed as some of us would have liked.

§ Baroness Strange
My Lords, in view of the current violations of human rights in these republics as observed by my noble friend Lady Cox, will the Government make a formal request to the Soviet Government under the agreed CSCE procedures for further information about what is happening there?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, we are requesting the Soviet Union to act in accordance with the principles of the CSCE not only in respect of these two republics but of all those in the Soviet Union.

§ Viscount Mersey
My Lords, is not the situation similar to that pertaining in Tibet, where there are beatings, tortures and killings? My noble friend will be aware that recently we boycotted Chinese celebrations of the 40th anniversary of the occupation of Tibet. Can we not take similar robust action next month when Mr. Gorbachev meets our right honourable friend the Prime Minister?

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, I expected my noble friend to raise the subject of Tibet. That is another Question.

§ The Earl of Shannon
My Lords, in view of the excellent report of the noble Baroness, will the Minister, through our embassy and the United Nations, ensure that the gallant Marshal Yazov does what he said that he would do and does not conveniently forget about it? Will the Minister bear in mind that in many cases a friendly nation nearby will draw attention to the deplorable, callous and irresponsible behaviour of many national authorities in that part of the world? For example, the Iranians did so in respect of the Shi'ite Moslems in Iraq. Will the Minister also bear in mind that as this is an orthodox Christian enclave in the middle of a hostile Moslem environment there are no friendly nations nearby to draw attention to the situation? Therefore, unless Western nations take action through their embassies and through the United Nations the matter will be conveniently forgotten.

The Earl of Caithness
My Lords, the matter will certainly not be forgotten because I know that while your Lordships remain concerned it will be raised regularly in this House. I have already conveyed to the Soviet Union the anxiety that has been expressed and the fact that continued Western assistance—that is, not only from Britain but from the whole of the West—will depend on it carrying out its reforms.