HMS "Endurance" (Hansard, 13 June 1991)

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (The Earl of Arran)
My Lords, I should like to make a Statement on HMS "Endurance" following questions in the House from your Lordships yesterday.
The noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, asked how it was that instructions were given that the crews were to be told on Monday that HMS "Endurance" was to be scrapped and that there would be no replacement. No such instructions were given. I would also stress that no ministerial authority has been given for any action with regard to the future of HMS "Endurance" or her crew.

§ Lord Williams of Elvel
My Lords, the House will be grateful to the noble Earl for making that Statement which clarifies a point that remained in doubt at the end of last night's debate. Can we now take it that on Monday the crew will be told nothing and that there is no message for them at all? Also, can we take it that Ministers are now prepared to listen to arguments in favour of a replacement for HMS "Endurance"?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, as regards the first question, I understand that when the crew returns on Monday it will be told that no decision has been taken. That will be made quite clear. Secondly, as regards HMS "Endurance" and her future, a decision will be taken at the appropriate time.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Earl for his frank Statement. As far as it goes, it is some encouragement. Perhaps I may ask him to pursue his inquiries further because I am satisfied that my authority is good and that whether or not instructions have been given, steps were being taken to inform the crew. I can tell the noble Earl that categorically, although I fully accept his helpful reply.
I should like to echo the question of my noble friend. Will it now be possible to use the arguments for the replacement of HMS "Endurance", which is particularly important at a time when we are negotiating in Madrid on the future of the Antarctic Treaty? At this moment the British Antarctic surveys are engaged in their summer plans, which are dependent upon HMS "Endurance". I take it that those plans can now go ahead.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am sure that full consideration is being given to the future of HMS "Endurance". I give the noble Lord that assurance. As regards his claimed source of information, I have 1208 checked extremely carefully in all the relevant departments in the Ministry of Defence and there exists no ground whatever for saying that instructions were to be given.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, does the noble Earl include Portsmouth in that?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, it includes all the areas from where such a leak may have come.

Lord Morris
My Lords, my noble friend suggested that a decision with regard to the future of HMS "Endurance" will be taken when the time is appropriate. Is he able to give your Lordships' House any indication of when that may be?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I cannot. I repeat that it will be when it is considered appropriate.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, many of us are grateful to hear what the noble Earl has said. However, I hope that he will not mind me saying that, because of the past record of the Ministry of Defence, currency is given to these rumours. Will he tell us when the future of HMS "Endurance" will be decided? If it is decided to withdraw it, in view of its great international significance as a symbol to the Falkland Islanders, and, incidentally, to the Argentinians, will he undertake that HMS "Endurance" will be replaced by a ship of similar capacity, with a similar role?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I do not believe that the noble Lord expects me to agree that such considerations should be taken into account. All the requirements for that part of the world will be taken into consideration. I cannot give any guarantee about a future replacement, nor would the noble Lord expect me to.
As regards leaks or suspicious information coming from the Ministry of Defence, I resent the implication because everything is as secret as possible.

§ Lord Callaghan of Cardiff
My Lords, I regret that the Minister resents the implication, but if he were as aware as I am of the history of the Ministry of Defence in trying to get rid of HMS "Endurance" he would understand the phrases which I use. If he inquires, he will discover that year after year the Ministry of Defence has made this proposal. Surely the noble Earl can give me a general assurance—and I do not ask for a particular assurance—that this ship, which has become such an important symbol, will be replaced by a ship with a similar capacity and with a similar appeal to the Falkland Islanders.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the future is always kept under continuous review.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, is it possible that the confusion may have arisen because of the question of a refit for HMS "Endurance"? Is it possible that the rumour which the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, and I heard yesterday may arise from the fact that HMS "Endurance" is due for a refit and the crew is being paid off for that purpose? Is it possible that that lies behind the rumours which, as the noble Lord, Lord 1209 Shackleton, said yesterday, he had heard? I too heard those rumours from a very senior source in the Royal Navy.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I have no wish to add speculation to rumour. I know not where the rumours came from. They are deeply regrettable, wherever they came from. There is not one ounce of truth in them.

§ Lord Chalfont
My Lords, the noble Earl has not addressed himself to my question. Is it possible, or is it a fact, that HMS "Endurance" is now going in for a refit and its crew is being paid off and that that gave rise to the rumours?

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, the crew is not being paid off.

§ Baroness Elles
My Lords, in view of the anxiety which is felt by all Benches of this House and following on from yesterday's important debate, perhaps my noble friend would convey to his right honourable friend the feelings of the House, possibly assisted by the Leader of the House. It is clear that there is anxiety. Those of us who lived through 1980 to 1982 and the discussions regarding "Endurance" before that, have every ground to feel anxious as to the policy to be pursued.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I shall certainly oblige my noble friend and do that.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, can the noble Earl give an assurance that HMS "Endurance" is not to be paid off? I thought that that was what he said. If so, it is a striking statement.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I said that the crew were not being paid off. As regards the future of HMS "Endt ranee", no decision has yet been taken.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, as a result of our discussion yesterday it appears that the Navy, Army and Air Force, now based in the Falklands in quite a considerable strength, may be watered down or progressively tailored away. That could have a long-term repercussion on "Endurance" or on a successor performing the same function. Perhaps my noble friend will reassure the House on that matter.

§ The Earl of Arran
My Lords, I am sure that all such matters as outlined by my noble friend are being taken into consideration.